NY: A Quick Look at Columbia University’s Muslim Students Association

In the past I have written numerous articles that show us that Islamic organizations, Mosques, and madrassas (Islamic schools) in America are not teaching Muslims to assimilate. They are being taught to stand with Islam above all. Today we will take a look at Columbia University’s Muslim Students Association (MSA). An association that was formed to unite Muslims in an effort to expand the reach of Islam.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Ever Merciful
And hold fast, all together, to the rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah’s favor on you; for you were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, you became brethren; and you were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make His signs clear to you, so that you may be guided. (Qur’an, Surah 3, Verse 103)

Constitution of the Muslim Students Association of Columbia University

We, the Muslim students of Columbia University, have agreed to and have adopted the present Constitution and do hereby establish an organization to be known as the Muslim Students Association, hereinafter called the Association.

SECTION 1.
The aim and purpose of the Association is to serve the best interests of Islam and of the Muslims of Columbia University and Morningside Heights. Towards this end, the Association shall:

1. Arrange and hold weekly Jummah prayers for students and members of the community throughout the year.
2. Arrange and hold other congregational prayers and Islamic religious celebrations at appropriate times.
3. Promote unity and joint action among Muslims through various religious, social, and other programs.
4. Strengthen interfaith relations on and off campus.

Interfaith dialogue is one of the strongest weapons in the Islamic arsenal. As non-Muslims are eager to hear what they want to told be told, and that is exactly what Muslims are telling them across the country. The results are that non-Muslims are dropping their guard in the war with Islam.

5. Endeavor to make Islamic teachings known to other communities

SNIP

SECTION 3.
The Association shall be a non-profit organization. In all matters, Inshallah, the Association shall act in accordance with Islam and shall shun any practices that are contrary to Islam.

It doesn’t sound like they have too much interest in assimilating, does it?

SNIP

ARTICLE III: Membership
SECTION 1.

A member shall be any Muslim or non-Muslim who wishes to be a member of the Association, and agrees to obey the constitution and the generally-accepted practices of the Association.

This is an attempt to get non-Muslims used to living under the rules of Islam.

SNIP

ARTICLE VII: Impeachment Procedures
SECTION 1.
Impeachment procedures are provided as an utterly final resort, and every attempt should be made to correct any problem through other avenues.
SECTION 2.
An Executive Committee member may be removed from office for neglecting responsibilities (e.g. excessive absence), misdemeanor, misappropriation of funds, fraud, corruption, violation of the Constitution, and cover-up of such offenses, etc. In addition, an Executive Committee member may be removed for violating Islamic principles or laws that deem them unworthy to serve as a leader of Muslims, or for representing the Association in a fashion that is uncharacteristic of Islamic principles.

As you can plainly see they are all about Islam, and not American principles. The infiltration is clear.

Comments

comments

59 comments for “NY: A Quick Look at Columbia University’s Muslim Students Association

  1. Diane Pascaretti
    May 19, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Yet another great article Chris. Will pass along and pray some of the deaf, dumb, and blind sheep wake up and stop this Muslim Madness.
    They have no intention of ever assimilating but quite the opposite.
    It will be we the infidels who must submit to Islam.
    Over my dead body. Keep up the good fight my friend and Pray much.

    • mike
      May 20, 2011 at 3:54 am

      me too,i am getting pamphlets handed to me that say”laove for all,hatred for none”.i told the guy that this is impossible in islam.i quoted chapter 3 v28 of the devils book and right away he got defensive and rude.
      no muslim can be our friends,it says so in their book.so if they say they can they lie,when they lie they again are doing what it says they can do.

  2. May 19, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    It’s precisely because of this why we should kick out all arselifters from our countries.

  3. Don Laird
    May 20, 2011 at 1:27 am

    Excellent work Christopher,

    The MSA and the MSUnion along with their terrorist funding from the Muslim Brotherhood…..truly wolves in sheep’s clothing…..only lately the wolves have begun to shed their wooly attire and show us their true colours….

    Meet the muslims….the new Nazis…or as the song goes:

    “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”….but I fear unless North America wakes up and soon….we will “get fooled again”

  4. CGW
    May 20, 2011 at 1:58 am

    Deport, deport, deport. . .

  5. CGW
    May 20, 2011 at 1:59 am

    Chris,

    Please change to “publish comment” rather than “submit”. It sends the wrong subliminal message.

    • mike
      May 20, 2011 at 3:52 am

      great ,u right

  6. Son of Sam
    May 20, 2011 at 2:50 am

    “deport…deport..deport”….deport to where?

    How about deporting the neo-nazis [people like newt gingrich] and pro-islaeri jews, first!Muslims got no where to go. You already took away their lands, oil and dignity!

    • mike
      May 20, 2011 at 3:51 am

      muslims have nowhere to go?are u serious?saudi arabia,egypt,syria,jordan,iran,iraq,pakistan,afghanistan,chechnya,albania,armenia,shall i go on?we took the lands?wtf?we took the oil?again,wtf?u sir are a racist jew hater.just what islam teaches.you are a good student.islam needs to be eradicated.s

    • Springy
      May 20, 2011 at 4:24 am

      Have you looked at a map recently? The muslims are taking over all of Europe, the Middle East, Russia, China (growing Islamic threat), the rest of Asia (esp. Indonesia) are being run over with Muslims. No deportation may end up the only thing to do if we can get a president and Congress with a spine to do that needed action.

      And I will have to say that we have too unsavvy of leadership here to have charged the Iraqi’s for their liberation in oil barrels. Please do prove proof of any oil we have gained and from what country.

      • Gerald
        May 21, 2011 at 3:48 am

        For the deportation of Muslims to work Congress will have to ban Islam just like Communism was banned in the 1950s in the U.S. Daniel Greenfield has written an excellent article along this lines in his blog.An excerpt from his article:
        “And we can go much further at an organizational level, based on the Sedition Act of 1918 and the 1954 Communist Control Act , which give us some guidelines for cracking down on Islam.

        Sec. 2. The Congress hereby finds and declares that the Communist Party of the United States, although purportedly a political party, is in fact an instrumentality of a conspiracy to overthrow the Government of the United States. It constitutes an authoritarian dictatorship within a republic, demanding for itself the rights and privileges accorded to political parties, but denying to all others the liberties guaranteed by the Constitution. Unlike political parties, which evolve their policies and programs through public means, by the reconciliation of a wide variety of individual views, and submit those policies and programs to the electorate at large for approval or disapproval, the policies and programs of the Communist Party are secretly prescribed for it by the foreign leaders of the world Communist movement. Its members have no part in determining its goals, and are not permitted to voice dissent to party objectives

        This applies to Islam just as much as it applies to Communism. And this preamble was part of a passage demonstrating the fundamental distinction between Communism and legitimate political parties.”
        There is more at this link:
        http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2009/05/can-we-ban-islam-legal-guidelines-for.html

    • Dan
      May 20, 2011 at 4:51 am

      Son of Sam returns… Still brainwashed I see. “You already took away their lands, oil and dignity!” WOW.. this is almost to easy! When did “we” take over Muslim lands? Islams history is that of conquest and domination. 1,500 hundred years ago, there were NO muslims,only when the madman Mohammed came along, with his insane dreams, with a small band of followers did muslims begin to TAKE land from others, by theft, deception, and war. God gave Israel to the Jews for ALL times, long before there was a muslim! We “took” their oil… are you as crazy as Mohammed? They SELL us their oil and take part of the money we PAY them to plot and finance the fall of civilization! Lastly we “take” away their dignity… The biggest joke of all. Where is the dignity in following the antichrist? Where is dignity involvd in following a CULT that COMMANDS all the EVIL, the qur’an does? Where is the dignity in taking child brides? Dignity is not something that can be taken from you, you have to give away your dignity. Anyone who follows the antichrist gives away their dignity!

      • New Crusader
        May 20, 2011 at 1:33 pm

        “…are you as crazy as Mohammed?”

        Yes he is – a genuine madman.

    • desertscout
      May 20, 2011 at 8:35 am

      Muslims … dignity …; the two have been mutually exclusive since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Muslims have not ceased to whine since 1917, the end of their 400 year reign. Their pagan deity (really an evil principality) will not deliver them in the final hour. However, Islam will continue to cause mayhem and bloodshed around the globe until the ‘time of the goyim’ has expired. Woe unto Islam and its imp demon deity that they call allah. Many on the planet will perish due to the infamy of Islam, but in the end, it is Islam that will be under judgment. Come out of Islam’s perversion, oh Muslim, and find true peace!!!

      Muslims have lost (actually they haven’t lost anything; another lie) their lands, oil, and dignity because of the perverse practices of Islam and its idolatry. More perverse and even more idolatrous nations have been raised to punish the evil that is Islam; so quit trying to blame your current and future woes upon the tiny nation of Israel, and Jews in general. This shows the sorry, whining state of the ummah, in that it looks for a scapegoat in the Jews instead of eschewing its own sins, lies and degradation. Muslims need to remove the mountain of lies and degradation from their own eyes instead. What hypocrites, liars and deceivers Muslims have been over the centuries; but it is no wonder, because Islam’s deity is united with the father of all lies, the fallen Lucifer. Islam sits and accuses the world because their deity is nothing more than a false accuser. Woe unto Islam; their deity is marked for judgment, and how great will be its fall. There will never be any true peace for Islam; it is a tool of deceivers. Islams ignoble end was predicted ages ago. Woe unto Islam!!!

    • admin
      May 20, 2011 at 1:21 pm

      Prove that Gingrich is a neo-Nazi. What land was taken? Prove that non-Muslims have taken oil from Muslims.

      No where to go? Have you ever heard of the term Islamic countries?

  7. mike
    May 20, 2011 at 3:55 am

    chapter 3 v 28 of the devils book says no muslim can make friends with jews or christians.so they lie to our faces when they say they have same god as us and can live with us.
    shame

    • DanS.
      May 20, 2011 at 3:04 pm

      It’s called taqiyyah

  8. May 20, 2011 at 7:43 am

    Dan, you are right on. Islam has been all conquest for almost 1,400 years. At present, there are 57 backward Muslim Third World Countries under Shariah, a most brutal ideology, legal rape of underage little girls by depraved Muslim male sex pervert after forced marriages.

    Notice that Islam has legalized all sins under the sun. Rape of underage little girls as mentioned above; relegating women to second class status; murder of apostates all because they refuse to be associated to Islamic Criminal Activity; honor killings for even the flimsiest excuses such as failing to wear proper Muslim rags, becoming “too Westernized;” lashing underage little girls for attempting to escape forced marriages to depraved, sinful, old Muslim male sex predators; Muslim sadists chopping off clitorises of little girls; sawing off limbs and gouging out eyes of petty thieves, both male and female; lashing old ladies caught alone with male friends; stoning women to death; and many more crimes.

  9. May 20, 2011 at 8:04 am

    Mike, the god of the Muslims is Satan, sometimes called Allah. Can you believe that their god, Satan, also known as Allah, allows the Muslims to practice hypocrisy? Let me give you an example:

    Only Muslim male sex perverts are allowed to commit adultery under Shariah and get a way with it. If the women are caught committing adultery, they are stoned to death. Let me explain: The Muslim male perverts are allowed to “marry” several women, sometimes dozens, and besides that, they are allowed to have as much sex as they want with prostitutes. You know as well as I do, that “marrying” several women and having sex with prostitues is adultery, pure and simple, in any civilized country. If the Muslim women did what the depraved male Muslims are allowed to do, they would be stoned to death for adultery. I’m sure you see the hypocrisy and double standard. So hypocrisy is yet another sin that Islam allows. I can’t think of any sin that isn’t permitted by Islam. Can you?

    WE MUST DESTROY THE CRIME SYNDICATES OF ISLAM BEFORE THE CRIME SYNDICATES OF ISLAM DESTROY US. EACH ISLAMIC SECT IS A CRIME SYNDICATE.

    WE MUST DESTROY THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ISLAM BEFORE THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ISLAM DESTROYS US, INCLUDING THE FEW GOOD MUSLIMS THAT ARE TOO AFRAID TO SPEAK AGAINST THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ISLAM.

  10. infidellovesisraelandamerica
    May 20, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    hey, son of sam,

    shut the F up..you have 57 shitholes to go to..and leave the Jews alone, scumbag.

  11. najaf husain
    September 30, 2011 at 7:18 am

    WOW !

    Its great that you all are so much interested in Islam and muslims.
    Its a very positive sign.

    Any way I believe a lot of things which you said are a result of what ever analysis you did and what you perceive about us.

    But your outburst is stopping you to do a deeper analysis of things.

    regards,
    Najaf

    • eib
      September 30, 2011 at 8:38 am

      You are right in that we are interested in the ideological and theological content of Islam, but our perspective is not, and can never be, yours.
      I believe that the wars carried out against Muslims in the past– Poitiers, the Crusades, Lepanto and the turning back of Ottoman forces at Vienna, were just wars.
      Christians are told that they must forgive their enemies, bless the enemy-strangers that curse them, and pray for them.
      They are not told to submit to their enemies; they are not told to surrender to their enemies.
      A Christian can fight, and fight, and fight and remain a Christian, just as long as the fight is a righteous one.
      And since Islam is profane, we have every right to wage a just war against it and its adherents when they take up the sword.
      And we do anticipate you will take up the sword– your prophet commands it. You will do it.

    • admin
      October 2, 2011 at 1:52 pm

      I have over 9 years of analysis on this issue. Your religions is not, and will be accepted on this site.

  12. najaf husain
    September 30, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    my dear brother do you know my perspective,
    or you have just assumed ?

    Any ways — I’ll anyway give my perspective-

    Why so serious ?

    cool down ..

    I assume that each one of us( human beings) is a complex entity, each having a though process , ideas , beliefs, opinions etc.

    Generalizing anything over a group of people( that group may be a race, people of certain nationality, of certain qualifications , challenges etc) in a way does not do justice to the above fact.

    I don’t hate christians/jews/kafirs etc.. And I know a lot of muslims who don’t hate anybody.

    When God himself does not hate anyone of his creations then how can we hate the supreme creation of God, simply because he is not following islam ?

    There are numerous instances where Prophet (s.a.w.) exemplified this, in fact his behavior with non muslims was such that they trusted him and valued his advice.

    In the event of Fatah Mecca Prophet did not shed a single drop of blood ! he could have easily killed all the idolators, he did not and nor did he ask them to convert. Irrespective of their faith they were spared.

    Hinda ( the woman who got Hazrat Hamza Killed and ate his liver) was pardoned by Prophet.

    Over various debates with scholars of other religions, never once did prophet say that ” oh you guys are evil you do such and such things” , in fact he praised them for all that was great in their religion and shared what’s common among them etc…

    So have one thing clear , I dont hate you, nor do I want to force you to convert to Islam.

    Forget about fighting – Islam legally allows muslims to marry Christians and Jews without converting them.

    Anyways , you are right when you say that there is indeed people who hold such views- hate kafirs , bring the shariyah law to the world etc.

    One can not deny their presence, but if they r loosing their mind -should we loose ours too ?

    I can discuss such people and the history of this stupid ideology of being trigger happy, why they think what they think , what went wrong etc..

    But I am not comfortable with what I can smell from your choice of words, your hatred for Islam is quite visible . The question is will this hatred allow you to honestly look into this issue ?

    regards,
    Najaf
    PS: sorry for writing long posts, I find it tough to be brief and structured

    • eib
      September 30, 2011 at 4:49 pm

      If you want to have a substantive discussion though, I’d suggest you read desertscout’s post over on the other message.
      His discoveries are something worth responding to.

    • admin
      October 1, 2011 at 5:01 pm

      I have been on this issue for over 9 years, and of course you fail to leave out the fact that Islam calls for the dominance over non-Muslims.
      Yes, I am sure they trusted him as he was beheading, raping, and forcing them to pay jizya.

      Take the IslamoCON somewhere else.

  13. eib
    September 30, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    We will not submit.
    We will resist.
    DEUS VULT!

  14. eib
    September 30, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    What about THIS Christian?

    Quote:
    Youcef Nadarkhani is a 33-year-old pastor who was born to Muslim parents and converted to Christianity at the age of 19. Prior to his arrest, he was a pastor for the Church of Iran, a 400-person congregation of Christians in the city of Rasht. His death sentence on the charge of apostasy was upheld on 23 August 2010 by Branch 11 of Gilan Province Appeals Court. The death sentence was overturned on 28 June, pending Naderkhani’s repentance. The suspect’s first court date was held on 25 September and continued through three more sessions until Wednesday 28 September.

    “The Judge kept asking my client to say, ‘I have renounced Christianity and I recognize Islam as rescinder of all other regions,’ and he kept saying ‘I won’t say that,’” said Dadkhah.

    end

    http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2011/09/nadarkhani-repentance-2/

    He will not submit.
    Deus vult.

    • September 30, 2011 at 5:19 pm

      eib- you have probably seen it, but for those who haven’t here is the letter the Good Pastor wrote from prison:

      Written in June 2010 by Pastor Yusef Nadarkhani while imprisoned in Lakan Prison, Iran, for refusing to renounce his Christian faith and adopt Islam. Translated from the original Farsi.

      Dear brothers and sisters, Salam

      In the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, I am continuously seeking grace and mercy to you, that you remember me and those who are bearing efforts for his name in your prayers.

      Your loyalty to God is the cause of my strength and encouragement. For I know well that you will be rewarded; as it’s stated: blessed is the one who has faith, for what has been said to him by God, will be carried out. As we believe, heaven and earth will fade but his word will still remain.

      Dear beloved ones, I would like to take this opportunity to remind you of a few verses, although you might know them, So that in everything, you give more effort than the past, both to prove your election, and for the sake of Gospel that is to be preached to the entire world as well.

      I know that not all of us are granted to keep this word, but to those who are granted this power and this revelation, I announce the same as Jude, earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

      We are passing by special and sensitive days. They are days that for an alert and awake believer can be days of spiritual growth and progress. Because for him, more than any other time there is the possibility to compare his faith with the word of God, have God’s promises in mind, and survey his faith.

      Therefore the true believer does not need to wonder for the fiery trial that has been set on for him as though it were something unusual, but it pleases him to participate in Christ’s suffering because the believer knows he will rejoice in his glory.

      Dears, the “ judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

      Therefore those who are enduring burdens by the will of God, commit their souls to the faithful Creator. Promises that he has given us, are unique and precious. As we’ve heard he has said: “Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

      How can it be possible for a believer to understand these words? Only if he is focusing on Jesus Christ with adapting his life according to the life Jesus lived when he was on earth. As it is said, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.”
      Have we not read and heard: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there are who find it. Many attempt to flee from their spiritual tests, and they have to face those same tests in a more difficult manner, because no one will be victorious by escaping from them, but with patience and humility he will be able to overcome all the tests, and gain victory.

      Therefore in the place of Christ’s followers, we must not feel desperate, but we have to pray to God in supplication with more passion to help us with any assistance we may need. According to what Paul has said: In every temptation, God himself will make a way for us to tolerate it.

      O beloved ones, difficulties do not weaken mankind, but they reveal the true human nature. It will be good for us to occasionally face persecutions and abnormalities, since these abnormalities will persuade us to search our hearts, and to survey ourselves. So as a result, we conclude that troubles are difficult, but usually good and useful to build us.

      Dear brothers and sisters, we must be more careful than any other time, because in these days, the hearts and thoughts of many are revealed, so that the faith is tested. May your treasure be where there is no moth and rust.

      I would like to remind you of some verses that we nearly discuss everyday, (Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven), but as long as our human will has priority over God’s will, his will shall not be done. As we have learned from him in Gethsemane, he surrendered his will to the father, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

      What we are bearing today is a difficult but not unbearable situation, because neither he has tested us more than our faith and our endurance, nor does he do as such. And as we have known from before, we must beware not to fail, but to advance in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, And consider these bumps and prisons as opportunities to testify to his name. He said: If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

      As a small servant, necessarily in prison to carry out what I must do, I say with faith in the word of God that he will come soon. “However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

      Discipline yourself with faith in the word of God. Retain your souls with patience. For there is no man who does anything in secret, and he himself seeks to be known openly.

      May you are granted grace and blessings increasingly in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

      Yusef Nadarkhani
      Lakan Prison in Rasht

  15. eib
    September 30, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Mindanao:
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/christians-are-not-permitted-to-react-the-only-alternative-to-escape-is-to-suffer-these-abuses-in-si.html

    They will not submit.
    Deus vult.

    Pakistan
    http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religion-today/pakistani-christian-teen-accused-of-blasphemy-flees.html

    She did not submit.
    They will not submit.
    Deus vult.

    Egypt:
    http://www.aina.org/news/20110928112952.htm

    She will not submit and is forced into ignorance and darkness.
    Islam is profane.

    You built your Dome of the Rock on their Temple!
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-09-28/muslim-israel-islam-converts/50589454/1

    They will not submit.
    Deus vult!

    Niger

    They were murdered by Muslims because they were Christians!
    They did not submit.

    http://au.christiantoday.com/article/muslim-extremists-in-nigeria-kill-christians-in-two-states/12105.htm

    Deus vult.

    http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/Lahore/26-Sep-2011/Fatwa-for-Jihad-against-America

    By their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew Chapter 7.
    Read it.
    ALL OF IT!
    Islam is profane.

  16. najaf husain
    September 30, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    i dont understand why are you afraid to speak or chat with me.
    I am not here to fight , you see..

    • admin
      October 1, 2011 at 4:58 pm

      I see we have another Muslim with an overblown ego. I have been busy, and have heard all the excuses before. The focus of this site will not change.

  17. najaf husain
    September 30, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    by the way I firmly believe that Yusef Nadarkhani should not be persecuted in any way, It will be hypocrisy to kill some one who turns from islam to some other religion and honor one who turns muslim.

    by the way Quran prescribes that there is no worldly punishment for apostasy / the punishment is waiting for them in the after life. So what I am saying is in agreement with Quran and many scholars like Late Hussein-Ali Montazeri believed in this.

    of course I wont agree with Mr Yusef and his beliefs but I am against him being harmed(even verbally threatened) for exercising his right to believe in something.

    • eib
      October 1, 2011 at 7:01 am

      My problem is with his persecution and with the faith in whose name it has been done.
      If Islam had and enforced STRICT tolerance, no Christian would ever have been killed, Bragadin would not have been stuffed and his hid paraded down the streets of Constantinople.
      If Islam was tolerant, five patriarchs of the Eastern Orthodox Church would not have been beheaded by your much-desired-again Sultan and Caliph.
      If Islam was tolerant there would have been no Reconquista.
      A war lasting about 400-500 years against Islam indicates that Islam fought Christians endlessly, and Christians had to defend themselves endlessly from Muslim lynch mobs.
      I wonder what happened to young girls in Western and Southern France who decided that they were free and dignified to wander out to run errands on the countryside?
      Plenty of times, they were carried away into slavery by Muslim slaving mobs.
      I don’t believe that Islam has changed because if it had, then Muslims would have had to deny the ethical example of their prophet and the commands of their god.
      Your god, and it is a pagan nature-deity, not the creator of the universe, commands you to destroy all that is not your own, to enslave every infidel and to subject their communities to systematic murder, humiliation and theft.
      And in committing these crimes, you have no sin on your soul.
      Yours is a religion of thieves, criminals, pirates, slaughterhouse workers and over-zealous warriors, for whom the utter annihilation of the enemy is all that will suffice.
      I have a savior.
      You have a prophet.
      Good luck with that.

    • eib
      October 1, 2011 at 8:53 am

      Quote:
      by the way Quran prescribes that there is no worldly punishment for apostasy / the punishment is waiting for them in the after life.
      end

      The Hadiths and Sirah, the precedents of Muslim law, all dictate otherwise.
      I’ve also noticed that even though some Muslims might believe this, they get around it by way of blasphemy laws passed in secular systems, imposed on non-Muslims.
      And these non-Muslims are sentenced to death.
      Where non-Muslims have confronted these “blasphemy” laws, they have been assassinated. Shahbaz Bhatti is remembered here.

      Mohammed and Allah will always want their pound of dead flesh.

    • admin
      October 1, 2011 at 4:57 pm

      You do not get to decide what Islam is.

      “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).

  18. October 1, 2011 at 5:51 am

    najaf husain, first you write:

    I assume that each one of us( human beings) is a complex entity, each having a though process , ideas , beliefs, opinions etc.

    Generalizing anything over a group of people( that group may be a race, people of certain nationality, of certain qualifications , challenges etc) in a way does not do justice to the above fact.

    I don’t hate christians/jews/kafirs etc.. And I know a lot of muslims who don’t hate anybody.

    REPLY: I agree with part of this first potion of your comments. As a Preacher who Ministers to Muslims I too know many Muslims who don’t hate Christians, Jews, Apostates, or Kafirs, however those I know who don’t are not Devout Muslims. A DEVOUT MUSLIM, one who truly follows the teachings of Muhammed and the Qu’ran DOES hate Apostates, Kafirs, and will only TOLERATE Jews and Christians as long as the Jews and Christians are submissive to Muslims and pay the Jizya. This is COMMANDED by the Qu’ran, the Hadith and Sharia.

    Then you write:

    When God himself does not hate anyone of his creations then how can we hate the supreme creation of God, simply because he is not following islam ?

    REPLY:

    The TRUE GOD, not Allah of the Qu’ran, hates Islam. Notice I didn’t say Muslims, I said ISLAM. I have been a student of The Holy Bible since I was 14, I am now 51, I have studied Islam for nearly 10 years. With all of that time invested in study and Prayer, I am 100% convinced Islam is ” The Beast” in the Book of Revelation in The Holy Bible and Muhammed is the antichrist.

    God does love all of His creations. Since He loves ALL his children, He wants us ALL to spend eternity in Heaven with Him. This is why He HATES the Evil Cult of Islam. Islam keeps its followers from ever getting to know the TRUE God! Unless Muslims leave the EVIL CULT of Islam, confess their sins, ask for forgiveness of their sins, and acccept Him, they will spend eternity in Hell.

    najaf husain you also wrote:

    i dont understand why are you afraid to speak or chat with me.
    I am not here to fight , you see..

    REPLY:

    I assure you the site administrator is NOT afraid to speak or chat with you. Evidently he has simply been away from the computer. I assure you none of the regular readers who comment on this site are afraid to speak or chat with you. I suspect you will get more replies than you want.

    Najaf, I challenge you to study The Holy Bible as I have studied the Qu’ran and the Hadith. The True God desires a relationship with you. He loves you. He wants you to spend eternity in Heaven with Him, but to do that you MUST study with an open mind, and open heart and allow Him to lead you away from the EVIL CULT of Islam.

    I will be Praying DAILY for God to lead you away from Islam.

    In His Service,

    Reverend Dan

  19. eib
    October 1, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Commentary and contributions to Najaf Hussain’s argument:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/10/when-muhammads-words-are-not-islamic.html

    Quote:
    “This brutality is not Islam,” by Mehdi Hasan in the Guardian, September 30 (thanks to Paul):

    In 1948, most of the world’s Muslim-majority nations signed up to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including article 18, “the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion” which includes, crucially, the “freedom to change his religion or belief”. The then Pakistani foreign minister, Muhammad Zafarullah Khan, wrote: “Belief is a matter of conscience, and conscience cannot be compelled.”
    Fast-forward to 2011: 14 Muslim-majority nations make conversion away from Islam illegal; several – including Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Sudan – impose the death penalty on those who disbelieve. The self-styled Islamic Republic of Iran has sentenced to death by hanging a Christian pastor, born to Muslim parents, for apostasy. At the time of writing, Youcef Nadarkhani, head of a network of Christian house churches in Iran, is on death row for refusing to recant and convert back to Islam.

    end

    Quote:
    Interestingly, the judgment in the Nadarkhani case is based not on Qur’anic verses but the fatwas of various ayatollahs. Fatwas, however, differ. For example, the late Grand Ayatollah Hussein Ali Montazeri, a grand ayatollah and one-time heir apparent to Ayatollah Khomeini, argued that the death penalty for apostasy was originally prescribed to punish only political conspiracies against the nascent Islamic community; Montazeri believed Muslims today should be free to convert to another religion….

    end

    Read the article completely and you get some of the basis on which the death for apostasy policy is based.

    • eib
      October 1, 2011 at 9:09 am

      Oh, and don’t forget the comments section either, in which much of the case made for punishment in the next world is refuted on the grounds of Muslim scripture and tradition.

  20. eib
    October 1, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Here is more Muslim tolerance:

    Quote:
    (AINA) — After Friday prayers today, a mob of several thousand Muslims from the village of Elmarinab in Edfu, Aswan province, demolished and torched St. George’s church, which was being renovated. The mob demolished the dome, walls and columns, then went to the church depot where the lumber to be used for construction was stored and torched it. The fire lasted 2 hours but the attack continued until 7 PM.

    Georges Bouchra of Copts United NGO reported the Copts are staying indoors as it was rumored that Muslims have threatened to torch their homes tonight.
    end
    http://www.aina.org/news/20110930204413.htm

    The Assyrians and the Copts will be free of Islam.
    If you thinks this kind of crap makes your religion holy, think again.
    These are the fruits of Islam.
    Islam is profane.
    A god who kills, or commands others to kill and destroy, is a DEMON!

  21. najaf husain
    October 2, 2011 at 7:16 am

    sorry If I sounded like some one with whale sized ego..

    I think its stupid of you to believe that muslims who dont hate kafirs are not devout !

    who will define the definition of a pious muslim, you !

    Any ways as a muslim I cannot deny that bible is indeed a heavenly book.

    I’ll actually cut short my discussion into questioning your way of looking at things.

    People like you – irrespective of whether they are muslims , atheists, christians , jews will never find peace – they will always have some reason to hate someone for something.

    suppose all the muslims are sent to Mars , them you will start seeing Jews as your enemy and be vitriolic against them (you can see people like finding profound reasons to do so before the advent of Islam),

    if they were also sent then you will be fighting against Protestants ( again you would find people with your way of thinking, doing this ) if they are also sent then you will find again a group which is different than you …
    this will go on and on you will always have great reasons to attack or demonize some group !

    change your attitude, I am not saying dont speak against what you believe is wrong , but your hatred should not make you prejudiced against someone.

    Like Gandhi said ” hate the sin not the sinner”

    By the way you keep mentioning to the word Allah, for your information Allah is a technical arabic word which has certain attributes- like the that of creator, sustainer , forgiver etc ( basically the meaning of what is referred to as 100 names of Allah) . So if you believe that your God has those qualities then He would be called Allah in arabic. ( for surely if your God has any of those qualities missing then Allah is indeed greater than your God !)

    So much for your blinded study of arabic texts…

    What if I gave you example of Caliphs who ordered that lands be given to christians to build their religious centers ?

    you should know no group considers Bukhari / Shahi Muslim etc as final words these were just compilers. If someone reports to them a wrong hadith they might have written that.

    All the compilers had advised that of if anyone find anything against the basic principles of Islam shatter that hadith.

    One of the compiler said – I had some precious gems , they fell in the sand and I am giving you these gems along with sand – Now its your task to filter the gems.

    Its not that you would have not come across these things but never once you considered it.

    You dont have to believe about Islam from people who say they are the authority – you yourself can interpet and try to understand it – surely the religion is something which is between a person and God .

    well sorry again for disorganized writing,
    regards,
    Najaf

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 7:34 am

      There is no unity in diversity.
      The only protection diversity has is the existence of diversity itself.
      Either you protect it by knowing your culture or you endanger it by imposing your culture elsewhere and facing the resentment of the home team.
      And the home team is indeed, us, the West.
      In my refusal to submit, I protect diversity.
      I have done right.

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 7:37 am

      Quote:
      People like you – irrespective of whether they are muslims , atheists, christians , jews will never find peace – they will always have some reason to hate someone for something.
      end

      That’s called being a human being, imperfect.
      You should try it sometime.
      As a Muslim, you can claim perfection.
      You give your Allah the license for evil because you can’t limit him.
      As a human being I cannot claim perfection.
      My humility is in my confession of Christ.
      Period.
      Christ told us to love our enemies, bless them who curse us.
      He did not say, surrender.
      He did not say, submit.
      And even the Pope’s authority has become dubious because of his submission to Islam.

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 7:42 am

      Quote:
      What if I gave you example of Caliphs who ordered that lands be given to christians to build their religious centers ?
      end

      If you gave me that example, I would not feel any admiration for said caliphs.
      Why?
      Because I’m a Westerner and I believe that people have a right, given to them by God, not the Caliph, to freely build churches without the permission of Caliphs.
      The Caliph has no authority over Christians.
      He has legitimacy to me.
      How dare he tell me when I’ll build a church and when I won’t!
      How dare he!
      I will not submit.
      If worship is not freely done, then it is not sincere or legitimate.
      Your religion is spread by force.
      No one comes freely to it.
      As such, all your converts are ill-gotten, and if you had made a contract with them, it would have no standing in Western law because any contract or agreement made under duress is not binding.
      The “reversions” or conversions are not binding in Islam.
      The rule of force will not be tolerated here.
      The rule of fear will be tolerated even less than the rule of force!
      The Caliph is an Oriental Despot– he always was.

      • eib
        October 2, 2011 at 7:45 am

        rather he has no legitimacy to me.
        Funny.
        But I understand such a leader would be highly legitimate to you.
        You would gladly give him the power of life and death over you.
        And that’s the difference between an Oriental and an Occidental perspective.
        The Occidentalist sees the supremacy of human law over human affairs.
        The Orientalist sees only the authority of the divine. A blinkered view I cannot assume for my own.
        Western Culture is not a coat to be put on and taken off.
        It is something almost inborn; something taught early on.

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 7:50 am

      I’ve had the chance to listen to the words of Arab and Orthodox Christians, people who have lived around Islam for hundreds of generations.
      They emphatically state that the Allah of Islam and the Sunnah of Mohammed are not the same as the Allah of the Trinity, Jesus the Christus and the Sunnah of Jesus Christ.
      In spite of what their patriarchs say (and these men are on pain of death to say what the Muslim majorities want to hear, the force and fear of Islamic rule are showing), you cannot be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time.
      One of these religions is profane and the other is holy.
      My choice is what I was born with, Christianity.
      A mysterious God, much more mysterious than yours.
      Salvation, redemption from sin.
      A spiritual rather than physical kingdom.
      The deal is much, much better.
      Christianity co-exists with democracy and republicanism.
      From what I seem Islam cannot. Wherever it is, there is only the TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY.

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 7:58 am

      Quote:
      You dont have to believe about Islam from people who say they are the authority – you yourself can interpet and try to understand it – surely the religion is something which is between a person and God .
      end

      Why don’t you tell that to the Muslim Brotherhood and their pro-Sharia friends?
      What about Shariah4America?
      If religion is between the person and God, then there should be no public imposition That individualistic position is Western, it has nothing to do with Muslim or even Arab tradition.
      Do you know how many people were killed in religious wars before Westerners could say that?
      We killed and died in the hundreds of thousands, even the millions before.
      Do you really think we can’t do so again?

    • admin
      October 2, 2011 at 8:41 am

      1. I am at peace, and I do not have problems with those other groups of people.
      2. Islam deserves all the criticism it gets.
      3. Gandhi was a fool when it came to Islam, and India still suffers today because of the way he handled Islam.
      4. I am not religious, and Allah is known as the God of Islam. So much for you paying attention.
      5. I am not interested. What part of I don’t want to live under Islamic Law do you not understand?
      6. I have studied, and I will take the word of those in authority like Al Azhar over you any day. Islamic Law affects non-Muslims. So it is much more than something between a person and God.

  22. eib
    October 2, 2011 at 7:32 am

    Quote:
    change your attitude,
    end

    In other words, submit.
    No.
    I’m a Westerner.
    I don’t submit.
    My “attitude” was learned, it was not inborn nor was it just assumed like a coat.
    You cannot paper over cultural and historical differences.
    There is no going back– East is East and West is West, and ne’er the twain do meet.
    Reason is supreme here.
    The Oriental despot is in exile. He will be treated with contempt as long as he remains the slave of arrogant pride in his Allah.

  23. eib
    October 2, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Why should anyone submit, when all Islam offers is poverty, desperation, regression and patriarchal supremacy?
    I have a Savior brought about with a thousand years of prophecy from hundreds of prophets!
    You have nothing but one prophet, and you worship him.
    You must because he’s really all you’ve got.

  24. najaf husain
    October 2, 2011 at 11:09 am

    thanks a lot for replying to my comments,
    It gives me a satisfaction of being heard.

    Now I think i did not make myself clear —
    I am not asking anybody to submit !

    I would rather respect a christian who believes in christianity and follows it than a muslim who si not sure about religion, but is following merely because he was born in a muslim house hold.

    I myself agree with the sharia but I think it is stupid to enforce it forcibly on nations not having the majority of muslims.

    That does not mean that first people should be FORCED to accept Islam and then sharia be enforced !

    I agree that when ever islam has been forced upon people with swords or greed then the school of thought emerging from it has been evil like that of Osama destroying peace and the very notion of being muslim.

    Thanks for gracefully taking my sharp criticism – If some body does not hate anyone – that does not mean he is perfect, I am not saying that agree with every everybody. What I am saying is that if you disagree then dont hate him , just to to analyze what makes him believe that. To do that try to be his friend and advise him why you think he is wrong .

    And the example of the Caliph which I quoted — The Caliph ordered that land be given freely to people of other religion so that they may continue working / discussing / spreading their philosophical and religious views.

    You have honored me by listening to me , so dont discuss what others are saying , I may or may not be in agreement with them. If you are speaking with me just discuss my interpretation of Islam.

    Yes I also believe that you cannot be christian and muslim at the same ,
    But you can be muslim and –
    1- believe in Jesus (AS,MPBWH)
    2- purity of Maryam ( Mother, of Jesus)
    3- believe he is not dead
    4- believe he can help you if you asked for his help
    5- believe that he could cure people/ bring back people from being dead/ even bring back previous prophets like Zacharia back from his grave.
    6- believe that Bible is the word of God.
    ….

    I am proud to be a human being, my pride is not a subject of my place of birth the fact that I can reason free from the shackles of the ideology of my family and society.

    And just one clarification – we do not worship Prophet Mohammad (saw) ! it is unthinkable to compare anyone with Allah and to worship anyone but Allah.

    We worship just ONE.

    regards,
    Najaf

    • admin
      October 2, 2011 at 11:13 am

      Your words change nothing, Islamic Law is to be forced on non-Muslims, and you honor a rapist. Pat yourself on the back.

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 11:41 am

      Quote:
      1- believe in Jesus (AS,MPBWH)
      2- purity of Maryam ( Mother, of Jesus)
      3- believe he is not dead
      end

      Even atheists believe in the existence of Jesus. It’s what we believe about Jesus that makes the two traditions vastly different and even causes them to conflict.
      Remember the prayer I posted in the other thread,
      Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God . . .
      to believe such a thing is to be a Christian.
      To repudiate and even feel personally offended at such a thing is definitely to be Muslim.

      The “purity” of Mary.
      Christians believe that Mary was conceived without Original Sin, and Original Sin is a doctrine Muslims do not believe in.
      Christians begin their Christian life formally with the sacrament of baptism. Through baptism, they are brought out of the darkness of Original Sin, which is the descent of all flesh.
      In the Quran, Mary seems to magically appear under a palm.
      In Christianity, Mary has a family tree that goes back to the House of Judah, from David and Jesse; and all of this lines up with the farewell of Jacob to the progenitors of the twelve tribes.
      Christians believe that Mary was married to Joseph, a carpenter in Nazareth.
      No mention of him in the Muslim scriptures.
      No mention of the prophecies and prefigurings in the Old Testament.
      Is it, perhaps, because Muslims have and want no knowledge of these things?

      Jesus, the Christus, the Anointed of God and God himself, was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
      He harrowed Hell and rose again.
      Muslims might believe that Christ lives, but they do not believe that he rose.

      Your perspective indicates that the Trinity is extremely alien to your mind.
      You really think that Christians worship three gods.
      You are extremely, tragically mistaken.
      The Christian calls on God.
      He prays in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
      There have been many movements to force the Christian Church as a whole to repudiate the Trinity, on the grounds that better relations with the other two Abrahamic religions might be facilitated.
      They also argue that the Trinity has no basis in Scripture, which is error.
      The Trinity and Incarnation of Jesus Christ, are pre-figured in the Old Testament, most particularly in the Psalms.
      Prophecies that go back as far as the Exodus tell us about the existence of a God whose substance and essence are divorced from one set form.
      God is divisible in terms of person, indivisible in terms of actual substance and essence.
      The Three Persons partake fully of the one Godhead.
      And that’s about as close to explaining the Blessed Trinity as I can get.
      Here at Logan’s Warning, there are people whose theological and scriptural training has been much more complete than mine. And you should also read their posts carefully.
      The person who runs this site is areligious, and makes his own case against the legal, political and cultural incursions of Islam on secular grounds.
      There are several different cases to make about Islam that argue that it is incompatible with the West, with republicanism and democracy; that it undermines nationalism and diversity.
      I make my own case on the basis of Christianity and Western tradition.
      Yes, we have tradition and culture here.
      If you thought the West was just imperialism, modernity and technology, you were and are horribly mistaken.
      The West, as a culture and tradition, is real.

  25. najaf husain
    October 2, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    thanks for the discussion Eib ,

    By the way I believe west has a rich culture and traditions.

    I recently attended a mass at the university church where they were discussing the unification of the trinity, which I disagree with , but nevertheless have some idea about this theory.

    Hindus have got thousands of gods and they also believe that finally they are unified into single entity.

    And I don’t understand why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the western free world ? Despite the negative publicity which Islam is subjected to ( owing the the suicide bombings/ human rights violations / actually any thing against humanity which muslims do).

    When we discuss the religion of Hitler , we say he was not really a christian, he was using christianity for his political purposes and he later planned to crush christianity itself, we dont say that a christian killed and persecuted Jews and committed human right violations, we say Nazis. In many speeches Hitler used religion to justify his persecution of people referring to Jesus as bastrad( a blasphemy)
    . Why was not christianity brought into dock for this ?

    Why dont we give the same benefit of doubt to Islam ?

    I think if you read my comments again and I yours may be we can make some sense.

    for now I rest my case.
    regards,
    Najaf
    PS: I am free

    • eib
      October 2, 2011 at 12:54 pm

      Quote:
      When we discuss the religion of Hitler , we say he was not really a christian, he was using christianity for his political purposes and he later planned to crush christianity itself,
      end

      In the Austrian Empire of the 1880s, Hitler would likely have been baptized a Catholic Christian.
      There is much talk that he had a Jewish grandparent.
      His father was not a religious man.
      And his mother?
      Well, I doubt she imposed much on her son.
      If Hitler was a Christian, he was not one who identified very strongly with either the church or its community.
      Among the Jews, Gypsies, and others he deported from his “pure German” land into concentration camps were many devout Catholics who defied their own pope and showed further defiance to the Nazi state.
      Meanwhile, Hitler was quite enamored of Islam and Muslims. He had a close relationship with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Muslim SS units served the Third Reich loyally in the Balkans.
      They did what SS units everywhere did– rounded up people for concentration and death camps.
      A Muslim could serve in the SS and be devout.
      A Christian could not.
      After ww2 was over, it is often bruited here and there that most the Germans involved in the Holocaust went to South America.
      What isn’t talked about is that Egypt and several Muslim countries welcomed and hid vast number of the Nazi war criminals; Islam was loyal to the regime it served.
      Obviously, the Holocaust was not much of a crime in their eyes.
      And the more Anti-Israel the Ummah is, the more they will cleave to the Nazi ideology of elimination of the Jews and everyone else in the Dar Al-Harb.
      Hitler and Nazism bear the same relationship to Western culture that Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge bear to Indochinese culture and history.
      You can see where the possibilities are before the events begin, but only someone who is extraordinarily ethically sick picks them up.
      The Ottoman Turks also engaged in two genocides, 1890-1925, that bear only one resemblance– all the victims were Christians.
      Before Turkey supposedly “modernized”, the Christian population formed a substantial percentage of the people under Ottoman domain; now it is less than 5%.
      As the Ottoman state fell, I’m convinced that Kemal et al wanted a good number of Christians to die right along with it.
      Kind of like putting a dog to sleep and laying it in the coffin with its master.
      So much for tolerance and good-will.

    • admin
      October 2, 2011 at 1:50 pm

      There is no “we”, and non-Muslims are not going to give Islam the same doubt because Muslims across the world are calling for Sharia.
      Your attempt to get us to back off has failed. Take it somewhere else.

  26. eib
    October 2, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    The fastest growing religion in the United States.
    What is it?

    Quote:

    The blockbuster new American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College reports that the fastest growing “faith group” is the one claiming “no religion.” (Full study here.)
    Look at USA Today’s stunning visual depiction of the flight from Catholicism and “Other Christian.”

    Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2009/03/fastest-growing-religion-no-re.html#ixzz1ZemTweKZ

    end

    If you are trying to say that Islam is holy based on the Fastest Growing Religion assertion, you would be resorting to the argumentum ad populum, a logical fallacy.

  27. eib
    October 2, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    And while we’re on the subject of Western barbarism, why don’t we do some serious reading for a change?

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2011/09/on-fanciful-attributions-and-wishful.html

    Quote:
    White people, particularly in Europe, have been fed such stories — and true stories they usually are — for generations. Hitler was not the first nail in the coffin of their pride in their civilization, just the last and biggest. What they are never told — at least not in their institutions of formal learning or popular culture — is that any such act of White Western barbarity was par for the course in the times in which it occurred (even Hitler relative to Stalin or Mao), and usually paled in comparison with the cruelty and barbarity of the foe or of the unrelated “other.”

    Those who are sickened by the slaughter of the innocents in Jerusalem ought to read descriptions of the fate of contemporaneous Christian pilgrims to the Holy Land at the hand of the Muslims, or of the Fall of Constantinople in 1453[3], or of the genocidal Muslim invasions of India, such as by Mahmoud al Ghazni, Muhammad Ghori, or Timur’s conquest of Delhi (1398) preceded by an execution of 100,000 Hindu captives[4], or the destruction of the Americas’ then-greatest city, Tollan (about 1170), by the Huaxtecs who murdered, sacrificed, or sold its population into slavery[5].

    But they never do read the countervailing evidence; it’s not in the plan of the S&M socialist intelligentsia that dispenses education and culture in the Western world.
    end

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