Debate! Christian Muslim Forum (Interfaith) vs. North American Infidels!

PrintOne of the greatest weapons Muslims have in their arsenal is interfaith dialogue. As it clearly gets naïve and trusting non-Muslims to actually support Islam. While interfaith talks might sound nice, the reality is that talking to Muslims does not change what Islam is. That is why I frequently speak out against these suicidal talks.

Recently on Twitter I ran into the UK’s Julian Bond. Director of the Christian Muslim Forum. Julian who claims to be a Christian, spends an awful lot of time kissing up to Muslims and defending Islam. In other words, he is the equivalent of a Jew sucking up to Nazism. A cowardly traitor.

Our main concern here at North American Infidels (NAI) is that Julian would recruit more non-Muslims to his treacherous, suicidal pact with Muslims. So NAI board member Tommy Hunt wisely invited him to debate us on our Facebook page. Julian thought he could “make his case”. You be the judge….

The debate can be seen by clicking HERE. But I will start you with two “appetizers”….

Julian Bond: Does not encourage violence towards anyone, Islam discourages violence against others
Like · 1 · December 20 at 5:20pm

Then there is this joint statement between Bond and his Muslim “friends”.

Christian-Muslim Forum.

305 Cambridge Heath Road, Bethnal Green, London, E2 9LH
T: 0207 729 6830 info@christianmuslimforum.org | www.christianmuslimforum.org Twitter @chrismusforum
16 August 2012
Statement on Violence, Hatred, Mistreatment of Minorities and Terrorist Attacks

1. We acknowledge that religions are implicated in acts of violence and terrorism, though religion does not justify atrocities
2. We affirm that no religion, in itself, advocates violence or terrorism
3. Equating religion with violence is a distortion, whether done by those opposed to religion or those who hijack religion to support violence
4. Peace with God and our fellow human beings is at the heart of Christianity and Islam
5. We acknowledge that believers do not always make clear that they are for peace and against violence
6. Doctrines of ‘just war’ and (military) jihad do not provide any justification for acts of terrorism
7. We urge Christians and Muslims, and all people, to renounce violence and work for peace
8. We are opposed to religious intolerance, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism and marginalisation of minorities and condemn intolerant attitudes
9. We especially condemn any mistreatment and persecution by Christians or Muslims, including in situations of conversion
10. We feel deeply the pain of attacks on all who suffer from hostility and violence and urge those in conflict situations to acknowledge the humanity of the other
11. We stand with those who suffer in our words, prayers and deeds
12. We call on all governments to work for peace, instead of increasing conflict, and to respect all people within their countries
Signed by the Presidents of the Christian Muslim Forum:
Anjum Anwar, MBE Rt Revd Dr Richard Cheetham Rt Revd Paul Hendricks (Co-Chair) Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra (Co-Chair) Rt Revd Dr Donnett Thomas, Revd Alison Tomlin

There are either one or two things happening here. Either Julian has done no real research on Islam, or he has and he is just afraid to face the harsh reality of what Islam means in regards to non-Muslims. Either way, his message is detrimental and treacherous.

You have read the fantasy told by Julian, now here is the harsh reality of the situation:

1 & 2.

Koran 3:151 (Yusuf Ali)

3:151

Sahih International

We  will  cast  terror  into  the  hearts  of  those  who  disbelieve  for  what  they  have associated  with Allah of  which  He  had  not  sent  down  [any]  authority.  And  their  refuge will  be  the  Fire,  and  wretched  is  the  residence  of  the  wrongdoers.

Koran 8:60 (Yusuf Ali)

8:60
Sahih International

And  prepare  against  them  whatever  you  are  able  of  power  and  of  steeds  of  war  by which  you  may  terrify  the  enemy  of Allah and  your  enemy  and  others  besides  them whom  you  do  not  know  [but]  whom Allah knows.  And  whatever  you  spend  in  the  cause of Allah will  be  fully  repaid  to  you,  and  you  will  not  be  wronged.

3. Mohammad admitted he was made victorious through terror. Did he hijack Islam?

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)

Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 220

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

I will quickly move ahead here.
8. Islam is intolerant and anti-Jewish.

Koran 9:29

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

12. Why would I respect traitors and those who are attempting to shove Sharia down our throats? Not happening!

You see, facts do not matter to people like Julian. This is all about him patting himself on the back, as he tells himself what a good person is. With absolutely no concern for his own future generations. As for the Muslims in this group, they are just playing him for the useful idiot he is.

23 comments for “Debate! Christian Muslim Forum (Interfaith) vs. North American Infidels!

  1. Kel Fritzi
    December 28, 2013 at 5:39 am

    How’s that Somalia ban on Christian Celebrations going, eh? So much for Inter-”faith” dialogue, indeed.

  2. s khan
    December 28, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Hello. The way i understand the verse 8:60 is for a strong defense. Any one is entitled for a strong defense. The hadith you quoted indicating that the prophet of islam was victorious through terror is not true. History shows that he became the target of assassination many times. Many of those assassination attempts were terror acts against him. In the other verse 3.15 the translation of arabic word to mean terror is simply inaccurate. The key word in the verse simply means to acknowledge the dire consequences in the life coming after death. My question is if you do not believe there is another life after death then why worry. I do acknowledge that both christianity and Islam soul seekers. Your argument that muslim christian dialogue is a way for muslims to converts christians to muslims then reverse is also true. thanks

    • admin
      December 28, 2013 at 9:47 am

      Prove it is not true. Funny, but I do not see the word “Sahih” in front of your name…
      Prove it is inaccurate. Y. Ali is a scholar. Are you?

      Interfaith dialogue with Muslims is an attempt by them to whitewash Islam. Your last sentence is not going to get me to stop exposing that fact.

    • admin
      December 28, 2013 at 9:48 am

      “Why worry”

      Was that the part where I was supposed to back off on Islam?

    • admin
      December 28, 2013 at 10:09 am

      There is an offensive jihad, and Mohammad himself called for perpetual war. Did you not know this?

    • Robin Shadowes
      December 29, 2013 at 10:14 am

      Well, Khan. Today a devout muslima in Volgograd stroke terror into the heart of the kuffar and took 14 of them with her an injured even more than that. I’m sure, according to you, she had misunderstood the koranus. Anyhow, if anyone of them went to heaven, then it was the innocent 14 victims qhile your murderous sharmuta Oksana Aslanova went straight to hell. Your “peaceful” pislamic religion still has a couple of days left to increase the total body count of 2013. I have no doubt it will rise further.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnzlQx7VNCc

      http://snaphanen.dk/2013/12/29/volgograd-og-m-ordet/

  3. ChrisLA
    December 28, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Americans need to watch out for the new dawah campaign by hired Muslim missionaries who are setting up tables in shopping centers and in front of libraries and coffee houses. They are pushing Islam, but their approach is to post signs that say :”I love Jesus because I am a Muslim.” Not only is this pitch deceptive, but it is an insult to Christians because the Quran denies the central tenants of Christian faith. The article linked below not only exposes this Islamic hypocrisy but it provides tools and tactics for confronting these professional peddlers of Islamic snake oil.
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/confronting-the-hired-muslim-missionaries/

    • admin
      December 28, 2013 at 10:12 am

      We are going up against a well-funded 24/7 propaganda machine. Thank you for the heads up!

    • admin
      December 28, 2013 at 10:37 am

      I reposted your warning on my Facebook and Twitter pages.

  4. Jack Ellison
    December 28, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Excellent article Christopher. “Interfaith dialogue” with Islam is an oxymoron, as the Koran and Mohammed are immutable.

    But it sells well to naive Westerners who are not clear about their own faith or to those who just want to feel good and safe and just get along. Perhaps like many Germans in 1937.

    JE

    • admin
      December 30, 2013 at 9:56 pm

      But it sells well to naive Westerners who are not clear about their own faith or to those who just want to feel good and safe and just get along. Perhaps like many Germans in 1937.

      Bingo, and thanks!

  5. pathofgentleness
    December 28, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Most people don’t read the words in Koran too litterally. Some do, including you, but in fact most muslims feel inspired to do good by worshipping Allah and doing their rituals. What’s wrong with that?

    Recent scientific research learns that Koran was originally written in Aramean, as at the time of the Prophet, there was no written language in Arab. And the later translation in Arab seems to be problematic at some places. So let it be.

    But there are violent people in the Muslim world, who feel inspired by some words in Koran. They are very aggressive, but mostly within the Muslimworld itself. The Jihadis kill their own people. And there is no end in sight.

    Why? Because there is a sociological law This law learns that when the number of youngster in society exceeds a specific number, you get revolution and turmoil. That’s happening now and it will end. Moreover you have the social and economic problems like poverty and unemployment, the fight between conservative thinking and modern thinking. And there is the cycle of hatred and anger all over the world.

    Violence and hatred have their own momentum, don’t fuel it. It is necessary to support those Muslims who don’t believe in Jihad. Muslims who read Koran for inspiration to do good and who feel love for mankind. And they are many. So i invite you to join their love for mankind.

    • Trevor
      December 29, 2013 at 2:40 pm

      islam is a lie!!
      They need to realize muhammadum was just some guy who through brain washing and breeding like rabbits created islam as what it is today. With the help of our bullshit immigration laws.
      And the don’t worship allah they worship a black stone that fell from the sky which the walk around 7 time once a year to forgive their sin.
      Zephaniah 1:4

    • admin
      December 30, 2013 at 9:55 pm

      1. I see another one of my stalkers has followed me over from Twitter.
      2. You are not the spokesperson for the Muslim community, so do not pretend to be.
      3. In over 12 years I have never encountered even ONE Muslim who will condemn even ONE Koran verse, or vile actions of Mohammad.
      4. Islam is a 1400 year old killing machine. So stop trying to downplay it.
      http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/
      4. Mohammad called for perpetual war, which overrides anything you have to say on Islam.
      5. Your attempt to get us to back off, is NOT going to happen. You are not nearly as slick as you think you are, and in turn I will pick up the pace of my work.
      6. Islam allows child marriage and sex slaves. Only the sick call that “love” for mankind.
      7. You have greatly failed Allah!

    • admin
      December 30, 2013 at 10:00 pm

      Recent scientific research learns that Koran was originally written in Aramean, as at the time of the Prophet, there was no written language in Arab. And the later translation in Arab seems to be problematic at some places. So let it be.

      LOL….yea right, just because you said so. Let’s play a game. Are you a Muslim? If not, condemn Mohammad for taking sex slaves. (Koran 33:50)

      • pathofgentleness
        December 31, 2013 at 7:29 am

        Please don’t judge a prophet by his followers, Christian or Muslim. I myself try to understand their wisdom, behind the scripts that are available. And to live after it. That is problematic enough. And i know those prophets have specific knowledge of human behavior in difficult times. And they suggest a solution. A solution of removing the clouds above one’s heart. That is the only path to end this cycle of hatred and anger all over the world, including the Muslimworld.

        And indeed slavery in all forms must be condemned.

        I try to walk the path of gentleness and reach hands to the good people. I know you are a good person, who wants peace, so i wish you happy new years.

        • admin
          December 31, 2013 at 10:22 am

          Mohammad married a child (Sahih Bukhari), took sex slaves (Koran 33:50), plundered (Sura 8), and said he would drive all the Christians and Jews out of the Arabian Peninsula (Sahih Muslim). Recognizing this is not having a cloud on one’s heart. It is called being an adult and facing a serious problem.

          You are attempting to get my teammates to back off on this fight, and then you are polite. I see right through your con. Good duck on the question, a typical Muslim tactic. The end.

  6. Trevor
    December 29, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    islim is not a religion!! And should not be treated like one. Ban it from north America !! Is the only solution

  7. Emmi
    January 1, 2014 at 5:48 am

    Mohammed beheaded 700 Jewish males in one day and distributed their women and children for his soldiers to use as sex slaves.
    In the UK most Muslims when asked say that they want sharia law with amputations and all the other Islamic cruelty.
    In Europe Muslims have declared jihad against all dogs.
    Pathofgentleness, you are on the wrong path. You are nothing but a robot who without engaging the brain, bobs up and down, flaps his hands around his ears five times a day because some old men order you to.
    Muslims would be happier with smaller families, taking an interest in Western activities and enjoying this life, not dwelling on death and the next life.

  8. Michael C
    January 1, 2014 at 6:50 am

    How touching! S Khan tells us “The way I understand the verse…”, and Pathofgentleness assures us that “Most people don’t read the words in Koran too litterally” (a privately conducted survey, presumably). Aren’t they just so charming and winsome? There is a problem, though.

    Islam is not “Pick Your Own”. The doctrines are set out in the canonical texts, and they are neither optional nor negotiable. Muslims do not choose: they are instructed. Dr. Salah al-Sawy, the secretary-general of the Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America issued a “fatwa”, or ruling, as follows:

    “For things which have been stipulated in the texts of Islam, the Ummah [muslim community] possesses no power except to acknowledge and obey, following the saying of the Most High:

    “It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path” ” [Koran 33:36].

    Of course, it is important to put the teachings of the Koran “in context”. Here is the context:

    The teachings of the Koran, advises imam Ahmad Saad of the North London Mosque, “are universal and trans-time: they are as true today as they were 1400 years ago”. Former professor of Sharia law Sam Solomon confirms that muslims are instructed that the Koran is “valid from eternity to eternity”. The Koran forms part of Islamic law. It cannot be changed: “None can change His words” (18:27). A person who denies any verse has to be killed (Manual of Islamic Law o8.7(7)). Anyone may, without penalty, perform the killing “since it is killing someone who deserves to die” (Manual, o8.4).

  9. Michael C
    January 1, 2014 at 7:52 am

    For those new to the subject:
    The Koran can be consulted online in parallel translations at www.http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29 etc.

    The Manual of Islamic Law, “Reliance of the Traveller” is available as a free download at: http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_downloads/…/reliance2_complete.pdf‎

    Both works are obtainable as books.

    • admin
      January 2, 2014 at 1:32 pm

      Thank you Michael!

  10. Pingback: North American Infidel (NAI) Challenge to Professor Barry Rubin of GLORIA! by Christopher Logan | Islam Exposed Online

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