ACT!’s Damage Control: They Cannot Defend Their “Moderate” Position, so They lie and Bash as they Hide in the Shadows…


An ACT! Arizona email admits they are misleading America.

As most of you know I am unapologetic in my stance against Brigitte Gabriel, Brooke Goldstein, Daniel Pipes, and Frank Gaffney, for misleading non-Muslims into believing “moderate” Muslims are going to come riding in on their white horses, and save America from Islamic conquest. It is just a fantasy based on wishful thinking. A line of thinking that Pipes has been pushing for a long time now.

 by Daniel Pipes

New York Sun
November 23, 2004

There is good news to report: The idea that “militant Islam is the problem, moderate Islam is the solution” is finding greater acceptance over time.

We also see that Pipes does not care that he is misleading America, as he is carrying the same message today!

APRIL 20, 2012 12:00 A.M.

Middle East scholar Daniel Pipes has said, “The problem is radical Islam. The solution is moderate Islam.”

The “moderates” are the answer notion has been a huge failure. This can be seen in two different areas. The first being democracy with Muslims.

A perfect example of this takes place in Egypt with the Muslim Brotherhood now in charge and running wild there. Then there was Hamas winning an election, Sharia being voted for in Somalia, and the AKP still strengthening the Islamic grip on Turkey.

The second area would the constant barrage of new reports showing us how Sharia has gone from creeping into the West, to slowly jogging across the continent. How much more of the West should be lost to Islam, before Gabriel and Co. start to stand with the truth that “moderates” are not coming to the rescue? How much more of America should be lost to Islam before she puts America before her friendship with Jasser, and admits she was wrong? If Jasser were a true friend to Gabriel he would admit his campaign is not working, and ask her to stop promoting it. He does not, and no matter what is happening Garbriel continues to $ell false hope.

While not everyone agree with my view, at least I can defend them and do not hide in the shadows while ducking questions like the Queen of False Hope does. But she is not the only one hiding. Today we have Carl Goldberg, of ACT! Arizona, doing some behind the scenes bashing in his poor attempt at damage control.

Hat tip to an anonymous anti-jihadist friend.

Forwarded message —–
From: “Carl Goldberg”
Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:17 pm
Subject: Articles by Loganswarning
To: “Carl Goldberg”

The other day, I sent around two articles from Loganswarning in which Logan attacked ACT and accused Brigtitte Gabriel personally of lying about the nature of Islam. Logan’s attacks (including his defense of Dakdok) were vicious, false, distorted and, in general, way over the line of decency. The question of the nature of Islam is a crucial one which needs to be discussed, but not in the way Logan is doing it.

Carl, your opening statement is full of empty talking points. It is a fact that I have proven BG a liar. One being that she stated that Jasser “truly represents” Muslims in America.

We encourage you to attend the March 5th event to show your support both for the NYPD as well as for this group of American Muslims who truly represent the Muslim American community. It is time that they are afforded the respect and attention they deserve, instead of Muslim Brotherhood groups like CAIR.

So now I ask you Carl. Is that statement true, or is she lying?

Moving onto Carl’s next talking point: “Vicious”. Please say the victim card Carl, I spoke the truth. But for the record, it is very telling that you did not say a word about the following ACT! attacks on me.

From one of the queen’s guards, Guy Rodgers:

It’s easy for armchair quarterbacks like Mr. Logan to post on their blogs from the sidelines and snipe at those of us actually on the field fighting the fight.

From her other guard Kelly Cook:

Logan, let us know when you’re ready to roll up your sleeves and actually do something rather than armchair quarterback the real achievers in this war. Until then, please think before you open your mouth.

From ACT! spokesperson Chris Slick:

Christopher Logan is a man with radical views and has nothing better to do than to sit around and blog about other people like Brigitte Gabriel and Guy Rodgers who are actually making a tangible difference.

It’s OK Carl, I am not thin-skinned. Now please pointing out how hanging ACT! leaders with their own words is “distorting” things?

Carl:

Some recipients of my postings impulsively leapt to the erroneous conclusion that I supported Logan’s attacks on ACT merely because I sent the articles around. Folks, I often send around without comment statements by various Moslem religious and political authorities calling for jihad and murder of Christians, Jews, other non-Moslems. I often send around verses from the Koran and the Hadith. Does this mean that I agree with those postings?! Certainly not! I guess I was naïve to think that everyone on my list would have the good sense and the decency to separate me, personally, from the articles which I sent around. Instead, a few recipients attacked me personally with the same ferocity and libelous accusations that Logan attacked Brigitte Gabriel. Frankly, this is unacceptable, and I expected better.

Carl, once again, I used her own words. Words you have not even begun to address.

Carl:

1) To show that ACT is getting attacked from the Right. Most people do not realize that the anti-Islamization movement, like all ideological movements, has its extremists and its moderates; and I thought it would be interesting for our members to become more aware of the situation. By the way, Logan’s attack from the Right actually strengthens ACT’s image as reasonable and moderate in the eyes of our political leaders and the American public. This is very advantageous to ACT in fending off accusations from the Left and from the Moslem spokesmen. Logan surely did not intend it that way; but we need to understand that he is doing us a favor. I thought that this would be clear to our ACT members and especially to our chapter leaders, but I was mistaken. I should have appended a comment about this when I sent around the postings.

Prove I have strengthened  ACT!’s false message. I see more and more people questioning the queen’s message. In fact, there were so many on Facebook doing so that the queen was deleting them faster than she asks for more donations to continue to spread false hope! She even stated we were “bigots” for criticizing her and Jasser!

Carl, please make every member of ACT! aware of my position. I invite everyone of them here to debate me on this issue. I would love for them to explain how Jasser is going to reform Islam. Jasser could not explain it, so I highly doubt they can either.

Carl:

2) For me, the most important aspect of Logan’s articles was the question concerning the truth about Islam and how to present it to the American public. When I sent the second posting, I appended the following comment which all recipients had in front of them but which many apparently did not read or did not think about:

You are mistaken Carl. The most important aspect of my articles is that BG and Jasser are blatantly misleading Americans into believe that the threat of Islam to non-Muslims will be resolved within the Muslim community. It will not, and that can be seen across the world. Because when push comes to shove they are going to stand with Islam over non-Muslims.

Koran verse 005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Carl:

This is another controversial yet very interesting discussion of the issue of supporting “moderate Muslims” in our struggle against the Islamization of America. The article takes only one side of the issue, but a number of the comments take the other side. You will not regret the time spent to read both the article and the comments.

Not one comment for the other side has addressed the fact that Jasser’s campaign has no Mosque support. (Not even the Mosques he has helped have built in America.) Nor has anyone of them explained how Jasser is going to reform Islam. Good work on leaving those facts out Carl.

Carl:

The question is extremely important. In my opinion, it boils down to this: How do we best present the awful truth about Islam, as set forth in the Koran, to an American public which still believes that Islam is just another religion? If we hit them with the full truth all at once when they are not prepared to accept it, they will reject us. We need to reach the American public and educate them; and if they reject us because of the way we approach them, we lose. Therefore, we have to be careful how we approach them with the truth about Islam. This may involve presenting the truth in stages. During the first stage, it may help to get the public’s attention by using the questionable terms “Islamism”, “political Islam” and “moderate Muslims”. Once the public realizes there is a serious problem with “Islamism”, they can be led to ask the crucial question which “moderate Muslims” avoid answering like the plague: “Where does Islamism come from?” Then, they will inevitably be led to the Koran and to Islam, itself.

How about honesty Carl? Where has your strategy worked? The UK maybe…..NO, I do not think so. What is happening is that ACT! makes it look like “Islamism” is a separate enity from Islam, and it keeps people from laying the blame where it belongs. On Islam itself. Over the years I have seen a long list of non-Muslims point to Jasser and then walk away from the subject. Gabriel, Gaffney, and others make it sound like he is the second coming who is going to save the world. He is not.

Carl:

This is a fundamental, serious question; and unfortunately there are still some members and even chapter leaders of ACT whose knowledge of Islam is insufficient to understand why this question is so important. For me, this question was more important than Logan’s unwarranted fireworks. It should have been clear from my comment above that I do not support Logan’s approach; but some recipients were apparently so dazzled, addled and misled by Logan’s fireworks that they missed my point entirely.

Carl, did you not see the dates on the quotes up above from Pipes? This should have been done a long time ago. Promoting “moderate” Muslims is a tremendously failed policy which just opens the door to Islam being accepted in America. Great work there!

Carl:

The fact is that we are all involved in a titanic ideological struggle and not just a “war on terrorism” against some “Muslim extremists” who “misinterpret” Islam’s sacred texts. The fate of our civilization depends on the outcome of this struggle; and because people’s ideas determine their behavior, — and this is true for us as well as for our enemies — we need to get our own ideas straight in order to understand the conflict correctly. If we do not understand the nature of our Islamic enemies, we cannot come up with the measures necessary to defend ourselves and win this fateful struggle. Already, failure to understand our Islamic enemies has cost us thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars of our wealth. And, you can be sure there will be a lot more before this is over. That is why it behooves all of us to learn as much about our Islamic enemies as possible AND about the ideology which guides their behavior. And, after we understand those things, we need to consider how best to present the truth about Islam to the American public. That is the issue which concerned me when I sent around Logan’s articles.

I agree with a lot of that Carl. Nation building turned out to be a huge mistake. A highly regrettable waste of lives and treasure. But the premise behind it was that Islam itself was not the problem. Now you are willing to send the same message to America, HOPING that America will figure it out from there. YOU are OBVIOUSLY OK with misleading the public. I am not. On top of it you are foolish enough to put it in writing.

Carl:

For the record, ACT!ForAmerica, under the leadership of Brigitte Gabriel, Guy Rodgers and Kelly Cook, is playing a vital role in the fateful ideological struggle to defend our civilization from our Islamic enemies. There can be no doubt about this.

They have done some good work, but now they have taken the Jasser thing too far. Way too far, and have undermined their past work.

Carl:

I sincerely hope that this crucial issue and my position on it make more sense now.

Carl Goldberg, PhD
Chapter Leader
ACT!ForAmerica – Arizona

The only thing you have proven is that you do not see Jasser as the savior, but YOU ARE willing to mislead America. You claim that I am misleading Americans. So why don’t you come here and prove it? Come out of the shadows Carl….come out of the shadows…

 

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  • http://www.alspage.i8.com SSidSJr

    [Quote]
    Therefore, we have to be careful how we approach them with the truth about Islam. This may involve presenting the truth in stages. During the first stage, it may help to get the public’s attention by using the questionable terms “Islamism”, “political Islam” and “moderate Muslims”. Once the public realizes there is a serious problem with “Islamism”, they can be led to ask the crucial question which “moderate Muslims” avoid answering like the plague: “Where does Islamism come from?” Then, they will inevitably be led to the Koran and to Islam, itself.
    [End Quote]
    That has only lead people astray and lead them to believe that Islam is peaceful; it did not (does not) cause them to wonder about its evil, which they were programmed to believe to be non-violent.

    • https://sites.google.com/site/islamicthreatsimplified/home gfmucci

      Very true. And that ACT tactic demeans the intelligence of the American people, believing they are not capable of absorbing the whole truth. ACT, to me, loses its credibility when they refuse to state the whole truth. I know they know it. But they refuse to say it. That refusal will only enhance the credibility of deceitful “moderate Islam” and diminish the credibility of ACT for America. This is sad.

      • admin

        Thanks for being willing to speak to truth Gfmucci!

    • TCollins

      If the American people, with little or no understanding of the Qu’ran or the brutality and fanaticism of the Islamist, are led to believe that the moderate muslims will take care of the fanatical muslims themselves, they will simply turn away and not get involved. This is the exact opposite of what needs to happen. The American people must be awakened to the fact that ISLAM and the Qu’ran is the problem.

      • admin

        TCollins said:

        “If the American people, with little or no understanding of the Qu’ran or the brutality and fanaticism of the Islamist, are led to believe that the moderate muslims will take care of the fanatical muslims themselves, they will simply turn away and not get involved.”

        Bingo! That is what I see happening a lot.

  • http://www.alspage.i8.com SSidSJr

    [Quote]
    Already, failure to understand our Islamic enemies has cost us thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars of our wealth.
    [End Quote]

    Well, ACT’s promoting of false hope sure is not helping that matter any, now is it? Because ACT sure is not trying to give the full truth, telling it how it is, to help others better “understand” the enemy, Islam.

    “YOU are OBVIOUSLY OK with misleading the public. I am not. On top of it you are foolish enough to put it in writing.” – C. Logan
    Well said Mr. Logan.

  • eib

    I’ve read just this evening from Jihad Watch that the Melkite Pope has been driven from his seat in Antioch.
    The church’s offices were ransacked.
    He fled to Lebanon with several priests.
    More evidence of that “historical tolerance” in Islam.

    • admin

      Eib,

      Thanks for providing that information. It fits in with the following message I received today.

      MalcolmX1975 said:

      “You don’t have any choice (to accept Islamic rule), just like all those arrogant satanic creatures who stood up against God’s religion Islam, they were wiped off the map and to the dustbin of history.”

  • admin

    Promoting the notion that “moderate” Muslims are coming to the rescue, is promoting the notion that Islam and our way of life can coexist within America. That will not happen. In the end it will be Sharia or life as we know it.

  • Twinkle

    Hello!
    Dear Mr. Logan,
    you seem to be highly concerned about the growth of America as a country, misleading the public is WRONG and I appreciate the weaknesses of ACT! you have pointed out in this article. If it is not too much of a bother, -since you have been studying Islam for ten years, this question must be quite old- can you honestly tell me that Islam is following a world agenda, and that a religion created more than 1400 years ago, survived for all this time (without change- if you have indeed thoroughly researched Islam, then you must surely have understood the way they have founded their principles), and spread so far and wide that is threatens America? The world? (1984, George Orwell, anyone?)
    With all due respect sir, you seem to be insinuating that we kick all Moslems out of America (a cruel act for those who only live according to their beliefs and give to the community)- moderates or extremes; doesn’t matter.
    WAKE UP AMERICA! Is…I mean…what? Like Wake Up! as in act- (i.e talk against Islam, alienate and bully Moslems until they are traumatized and run back to any other country? (What about converts who were-by blood- American? What are THEY going to do?)

    Nuclear bombs…killing people…the future being bleak…WOW the Moslems and Islamic governments must create geniuses every CENTURY if they are able to hide their plans from the CIA, MI6, RAW, ASIO, and all other intelligence agencies, and spread their horrible, terrifying, inhuman religion ALONG THE WAY- at such a rate that it becomes the FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD?
    Not that I am trying to rationalize, but…the facts don’t add up. AT ALL.

    Sure, the Moslems have disagreements yes; they go about on extreme things; yes, they get the most ridiculous and sometimes morally upside down ‘traditions’; alright. Sure.

    But wait a second- where is Islam in the picture? Oh! Its because MOSLEMS REPRESENT ISLAM! WOW! Ain’t that Amazing? WRONG. DEAD WRONG.
    BG and all these other authors, focus on extreme Moslems? Not sure about that really, but anyhow- extreme Moslems, just like any other extremists in religions (I can refer to a website which shows ACCURATE, VERIFIED STATS on Moslem extremist acts) do wrong things.

    Saying that Islam itself must be feared, killed, destroyed, etc. Is like saying- this medicine may have an adverse effect on some people; therefore lets ban it altogether, and forget about the people it can cure.

    Islam is evil at the core; Oh yes!, definitely. And you know what? Everyone is fooled except a few, cool-headed, extremely thoughtful people, who grab at a few controversial points and depict the whole religion.
    I am sorry I cannot agree with you, while my way might have been sarcastic and a bit offensive (sorry for that) I will appreciate it if someone replies. To every point please.
    Thats all then,
    Twinkle

    • admin

      Hi Twinkle,

      I did not say to kick them all out, but you are only kidding yourself if you think that America will win this war by playing Mr. Nice Guy. Muslims exploit that weakness on a daily basis. That goes across the West.

      Mohammad called for perpetual war.

      Buklhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:
      Narrated Anas bin Malik:

      Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.” Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, “O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?” He replied, “Whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’, faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have.”

      The Islamic scriptures state to follow his actions for all times.

      Koran verse 33:21

      YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

      Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 251:

      Narrated Abu Huraira:

      Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah, and whoever obeys the ruler I appoint, obeys me, and whoever disobeys him, disobeys me.”

      Islam allows child marriages and rape. If you do not think those actions are evil, you have no morals. Outside of Israel, Muslims have taken over the Middle East, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, large portions of Africa, Asia, and Europe. But to you the facts “do not add up”. The US government does not acknowledge it because we are lead by politically correct weaklings.

    • admin

      Gee, some person posting from Saudi Arabia. I cannot imagine why you would be against my tough anti-Islam policies….

      • Twinkle

        Ah I got caught then? Should have known.
        Well then, do know this Mr. Logan, my arguments were not fueled by ‘religious views’ but merely objective logic.

        As you can see, I live in quite a bigoted country, whose level of education is very poor (frankly speaking) thus, you flooring me and killing all of these foolish objections should be no problem, correct? :)

        • Twinkle

          Oh you did reply, sorry about that, let me read it first then. (Didn’t see your first post)

    • Joe

      “therefore lets ban it altogether, and forget about the people it can cure.”

      Twinkle, I would like you to explain yourself here. Do you mean to say that Islam somehow is a cure to the crime and violence in our world? Since when do thugs and violent criminals do the world any good?

      “Its because MOSLEMS REPRESENT ISLAM! WOW! Ain’t that Amazing? WRONG. DEAD WRONG.”

      This is almost funny. Logan is talking first and foremost about the Koran and about the religion of Islam, not about the supposed good and bad Muslims. By the way, the only people in the world who do represent Islam are Muslims, Mohammad himself being the chief of all Muslims. If you say that Mohammad does not represent Islam, then you do not know one thing about Islam. Also, if you don’t know that Mohammad was a lying, cheating, thieving,raping, warmongering, pedophile, then you don’t know one thing about Mohammad. I challenge you to answer Logan’s questions about the Koran and about Islam.

      • admin

        Joe,

        Just think of all the people that would be saved if there was no Islam.

      • Twinkle

        Hmmm, I was having a hard time finding an objective analogy, and that was the best I could do.

        Islam to Muslims, is a cure generally yes. Right so, Muslims became thugs…when exactly? I get Al-Qaeda with the terrorism they spread; they are violent and completely not Islam may I add. (though that will be elaborated in my ‘proof-filled’ reply later, so don’t catch that yet.)

        I accept that challenge! :) Please do refrain from commenting on the Prophet’s character, it might bring ‘heated Muslims’ in and that would put my position as a ‘defender’ risk. (Since serious posts will be lost among rants)

        Indeed, Muhammad is the best man among ‘humans’. Tell me, Muslims all over the world forget this, but the first thing a person needs to do, before spreading Islam to others (and thus other countries) is to implement the teachings themselves.

        The truth is: Majority of today’s Muslims do not follow the Prophet’s basic teachings (e.g, treat your children and wives kindly, smile, be kind to your neighbor, never lie, fast, pay zakat etc.) If you don’t master the ‘basics’ how can a person jump to the intermediate level, that is- the understanding and proper implementation of ‘War Jihad’? (Emphasized to differentiate between personal Jihad)

        It also can be seen as, running before knowing how to crawl.

        No, the Muslim extremists don’t follow the Prophet’s teachings or Islam. My ire sort of exploded into caps lock then.

        Haha, there are going to be a large amount of bashers huh? I wonder though- were all Muslim defenders deleted, or did no one speak up through posts before? (Personally, I find that really hard to believe.)
        One last thing- will the thing I write be taken into consideration or not? This is an intellectual discussion, if a person believes Islam is blatantly wrong, then do hear, understand and then diffuse my points.

        Maybe people know of this, but it is a Hadith to only speak when your words will be taken seriously. So I want to gauge the ‘open-mindedness’ of this community, who knows you might persuade me.

        • admin

          Does that include those who are persecuted or killed by other Muslims?

          The Koran condones terrorism. I strongly suggest you stop making comments with no proof whatsoever behind them.

          008.060
          YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

          Don’t tell me or anyone else here how to debate. Mohammad’s character says a lot about Islam. If you are a non-Muslim why do you call him a prophet?
          Mohammad was a killer who order people stoned to death. He was also a rapist, and plunderer. There are comments from Muslims and their non-Muslims defenders through out this site. You continue to make things up because you cannot refute my points on Islam, and are a non-Muslim who just happens to be posting from Saudi Arabia, who does not want Mohammad criticized. Too funny.

          I have diffused your points. Earlier you implied my sources were not accurate, and you had to leave. “Diffuse” my points on your next post….

          • Twinkle

            Point taken, I will post proof accordingly. (As I mentioned before though, please do give me time)

            Yes you did diffuse my points; I won’t run away. Whether I am Muslim, or merely influenced by the community is irrelevant, correct? Since I am bringing up my understanding here, not direct statements that all religious people give and expect others to comprehend.

            My comments however, (note this please) are backed up with proof that any ten-year researcher should be able to recognize. (Muslims practicing the basics, before moving on to other ‘national’ duties is a MUST. Caps here for the gravity behind non-practicing Muslims going crazy on ‘national crimes’. If they are acting without doing that, then yes, it does not represent Islam. Do not tell me I am not providing proof, it is quite well-known and a fact that is encouraged by people as well- fix yourself, before pointing at others. The case being, once you do ‘fix’ yourself, you are rational, and able to understand ‘God’s commandments’ beyond the surface level. And thus not do ‘terrorist-esque’ acts ) Islam commands to fight- when and in what situations exactly? In the Tafsir of this verse, what was the reason for revelation?

            You can scratch the last question out, since I will be answering it myself.

          • admin

            Don’t play games. Either provide the proof or we are done. Islam commands Muslims to fight if they are “oppressed, Koran 8:39. Then there is also an offensive jihad.

        • Joe

          Hi, Twinkle!

          You wrote, “Indeed, Muhammad is the best man among ‘humans’.” What I said is that Muhammad is supposedly the best Muslim. I don’t believe he was the best among humans, let alone the best among Muslims. Personally, I believe that the Jesus of the Bible, who is the one and only mediator between God and man, was and is the best of all humans for all time. Even the Koran agrees that he was sinless. Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the Life, and the only one who can forgive our sins and give us eternal life. Muhammad could not make such a claim, for he said that he didn’t even know if he would make it to heaven. Following Muhammad is like the blind following the blind to the slaughter. Following the Jesus of the Bible is following he Prince of Peace and the light of the world.

          • Twinkle

            If I answer this Mr. Logan, will you shoot me down for no proof? :)

            No matter, Hello Joe!
            Haha, it was not actually an acquiescence to the fact he is the ‘best among humans’, it is implied in the Quran, through many verses. Here is the website (scroll down for proof, they have some poem translation in the beginning) http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/best.htm

            I only wanted to say that in Islam, he is also considered to be the best among mankind. Should have been clearer, I apologize.

            What you said about Muhammad, is supposedly the ‘worst human being’. And I never accepted your portrayal of him, merely commented to stop, as I didn’t want a war on such a point. (yet- although, not a war but proper discussion) Because again, I have not researched this properly. (yet)

            Prophet Isa (a.s), also known as Jesus is someone all Muslims believe to be pious, and an honored, revered Prophet. His story had miracles (by story, I am not degrading it here, it is true for all Muslims as the Quran mentioned it)

            Very good point, though forums on ‘Christianity versus Islam’ could answer it much better (I only want to understand why Islam is being feared and attacked so). But I will say this- the Bible and Quran have a variation in account. While in the Bible, Jesus could have said he is the way, etc. In the Quran he did not, he told the people he is a Messenger, not the son of God, that there is a book (Injeel, I believe) which has commandments written on it, and he was sent to preach among them- the true religion.

            As far as the Islamic account goes, Jesus was a born miracle, his mother Mariam, was a pious, reserved and very God-fearing lady. This is all in Surah Imran for those who want proof, she was shocked when an Angel came to her with glad tidings from ‘God’ saying she will have a son when no man touched her.

            This difference once accepted, shows that while Christians can ask why our Prophet is just another human being, the fact is, in the Quran- all the Prophets were humans too.

          • admin

            He was a liar, plunderer, and rapist. Why would you respect such a person?

    • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

      Twinkle, pull your head out of your anus, wipe the drek from your eyes, cast off your supercilious, arrogant sarcasm and learn something vital.

      A man far wiser than I said it best: “Its Islam, stupid!”. Islam is what Moe said and did, nothing less; nothing more. Anything else is not Islam, it is something else.

      The standard of Islam is enshrined in the Qur’an. Its perpetual conquest, terrorism and genocide are contained in Surahs Al-Anfal & At-Taubah.

      Visit http://www.islam-universe.com/ , open Tafsir Ibn Kathir to Surah Al-Anfal (8) and start reading.

      Next, search for and open Riyad us-Saliheen to Book 11, Chapter 234 and read all of the ahadith and commentary relevant to jihad.

      Follow up by opening Reliance of the Traveller to Book O, Chapter 9 and read from O9.0 through O9.14.

      Finish your first lesson in objective factual reality by reading Hedaya, Volume 2, Book 9, Chapter 1, pages 140 & 141.

      Begin your second lesson by visiting http://www.quranbrowser.com/ to search for the following phrases: “no change”, “none can change” and “perfected”.

      Begin your third lesson by visiting
      http://www.yanabi.com/HadithResearch.aspx to search Sahih Bukhari for the following phrases: “was revealed” and “i feel that your Lord”.

      If reading the results of those searches does not give you a clue, then return your head to its rightful resting place and stuff it deep enough to suffocate yourself.

      • Twinkle

        How should I best respond? Hmmm:

        I understand the frustration you must feel by dealing with me; really, I do. But to get rid of the sarcasm….alright I will try. I mean, its terrible of me to just question everyone without being able to answer, so yes, I was out of line in my earlier postings. Blame youth.

        Thank you for posting those websites, I will check each of them out. (In order)

        Well I tried without knowledge, and only rationalization. When I get back, I will either say you are right, or go on the long journey of trying to explain why my research didn’t correspond with yours.

        • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

          The texts I referred to are linked under various menus at http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ . At least three thousand original Arabic source documents are available at
          http://www.al-eman.com/index.htm

          and other Islamic libraries. There is no excuse for ignorance for those with web access.

          Issue: unprovoked jihad. Sources:
          http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/2/216/

          http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.110
          (for context)

          Sorry, Chris, you bollixed it:

          http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.038

          There is no defensive element in that ayat and its context.

          “If they cease from disbelief”… Disbelief is the only pretext for aggression.

          http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029

          The only provocation is not being Muslim. No attack, no aggression, just not Muslim.

          “Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad’s advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers”

          “This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah’s religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims’ control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination.”

          “Allah commanded”! This is a true head up your ass moment! Tafsir Ibn Kathir is explicit in its pretext for conquest.

          http://www.islam-universe.com/tafsir//9.20980.html

          Those are the primary jihad imperatives; commands to wage offensive warfare against non-Muslims ‘cuz they ain’t Muslims with no other pretext.

          What did Moe say? That he was commanded to fight the people until they become Muslims.
          http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/hadeeth/bukhari/008.html#001.008.387

          When Moe sent out his army, he commanded his generals to call the people to Islam, if accepted, to call them to Jihad. If they rejected Islam, to demand Jizya; if refused, to wage war.

          He told them to wage a holy war. He listed the acts that would make it profane, ghulul being chief among them.

          http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/hadeeth/muslim/019.html#019.4294

          Shari’ah codifies and confirms that which is obvious on the face of the Qur’an.

          “In the time of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) jihad was a communal obligation after his emigration (hijra) to Medina. As for subsequent times, there are two possible states in respect to non-Muslims.

          The first is when they are in their own countries, in which case jihad (def: o9.8) is a communal obligation, and this is what our author is speaking of when he says, “Jihad is a communal obligation,” meaning upon the Muslims each year.”

          Muslims must attack neighboring kuffar at least once each year or they are in sin if the attack was possible.

          http://www.shariahthethreat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/reliance_of_the_traveller.pdf#page=618

          Hedaya, the Hanifi code, is even more explicit, declaring that we may be attacked without provocation.

          Hedaya Vol II, Book IX, Ch. 1 Pg. 141 PDF 154
          http://www.archive.org/stream/hedaysorguide00hamigoog#page/n154/mode/1up

          * Text
          o The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the sacred writings which are generally received this effect.
          * Marginal Note
          o Infidels may be attacked without provocation.

          Refute that, Twinkle, then refute what the great jurist Al-Shafi-i said.

          “The least that the imam must do is that he allow no year to pass without having organised a military expedition by himself, or by his raiding parties, according to the Muslims’ interest, so that the jihad will only be stopped in a year for a (reasonable) excuse.”
          http://www.arts.cornell.edu/prh3/447/texts/Sulami.html

  • Twinkle

    Ah- I accidentally became a bit presumptuous there. You wanted America to become aware of Islam as a threat, and then reveal it to the youths and let them condemn the religion as they like. This domino affect is surely natural, you try convincing people Islam is evil: all those who get convinced begin to avoid or prosecute Moslems like the plague.

    It is also sad that many Moslems, who are not aware of the ‘true’ Islam will get into the picture, and things will quite literally escalate to the level of major violence.
    Also Moslems do work in America, the amount being debatable- but, it would be a severe loss to the economy, and the social community would be shaken as well.
    (I.e, when employers start firing, and co-workers begin bullying)

    If your claims on Islam are true, all that will be worth it of course. But if they are false, I wonder that a whole country would suffer because of the mislead-ed notions of a few people.

    • admin

      Once again, you are person posting from Saudi Arabia implying my views are too strong. I back up my statements about Islam by using verses from the Islamic scriptures. How about you prove me wrong?

      • Twinkle

        Sure! Though it will take a bit time to gather up the evidence from accurate sources, and put them out here (gotta start work in a while). Thank you for giving me a chance to present my view-point, from Saudia Arabia by the way.

        Then, you can expect me in a few days (maximum week).
        Twinkle

        • admin

          Let me save you some time. Posting “peaceful” verses does not erase the threatening ones.

          BTW, there is nothing more accurate than the Koran and Sahih Ahadith.

          Have a good day!

          • Twinkle

            Oh of course, I am not a politician, pointing the other way when you want to ask me why going left is wrong.

            I am going to research on those verses (since I am no scholar) find the context in which they were revealed. And hopefully understand the religion better in the process. This is a learning experience, after all.

            Oh yes, and did you know the Prophet explicitly disallowed women to drive as well? Yep, the Quran and Hadith are followed to the letter by every Islamic Government. Manipulation only occurs among ‘infidels’ :D

            You as well! Have fun replying to other comments!

          • admin

            I never said they were followed to the letter. But the fact remains that non-Muslims are persecuted across the Islamic world. Your little smiley faces do not erase the facts.

        • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

          Make notes in your research, Twinkle, and if you have the free time, visit
          http://snooper.wordpress.com/whats-wrong-with-islam-muslims/

          and refute it point by point, I will be more than happy to exhibit your probative evidence.

    • Robert

      Twinkle, please the book “A God Who Hates” by Dr. Wafa Sultan.

      • Twinkle

        Will do. Thanks.

  • http://451akbar.blogspot.com/ Tommy Hunt

    One is hardly making a “tangible difference” if the beautiful house you’re building has a rotten foundation and ACT certainly has a rotten foundation. Think of the difference ACT for America could make if they were going after the actual problem instead of merely treating the symptoms. Act needs to understand that Islam itself is the problem. It needs to stop promoting lies like this moderate Islam nonsense and give up their blind devotion to Muslims like Jasser. We’re fed up with it and we’re running out of time. We already have the Muslim Brotherhood at the top levels of government and at the Democratic National Convention this year for crying out loud.

    There is no good or moderate Islam anymore than there’s a good or moderate Fascism and we all know it. Sweden is coming to it’s senses and suggesting a ban on Islam altogether and deportation for anyone practicing it. I don’t know about going that far but Islam, by it’s very nature, does not and cannot assimilate into a culture that champions personal sovereignty and freedom of choice. It can’t happen and for the obvious reasons.

    We’re waiting for you to catch up ACT. Please hurry – we don’t have a lot of time.

  • Carl Goldberg

    Chris, you do me a serious injustice. You wrote at the end: “You claim that I am misleading Americans.” I never made any such claim that you are misleading Americans! You and I agree on the nature of Islam and on the irrelevance of “moderate Moslems” to our struggle. Essentially, my claim is that your manner and tone of telling the truth about Islam is so strident that you are not likely to convince many people that you are right — and lord knows, we need to convince lots of people about the true nature of Islam. As for your accusatory and even mean-spirited attacks on Brigitte Gabriel and on ACT, it is my opinion that you are actually doing them a good deed. They can now point to their critics on the Left and show them that they are not the “Islamophobes” the left and the Moslems accuse them of being. That gives them more credibility in reaching our elected but benighted representatives about the dangers from sharia and the Muslim Brotherhood. ACT is performing vital work in this regard even though they may be factually incorrect about the separability of “Islamism” and Islam. Their vital work should be recognized. If you disagree with their use of terms like “Islamism”, “radical Islam” and so on, then please be civilized in your discussion of that disagreement. We really are all on the same side in the struggle against the Islamization of America.

    • admin

      Carl,

      Here is what you stated.

      “but some recipients were apparently so dazzled, addled and misled by Logan’s fireworks that they missed my point entirely.”

      You are mistaken Carl, the first time around with ACT! I had little support. The second time around BG was so overwhelmed on Facebook that she went on a deleting frenzy. She had her henchman Rodgers issue a press release in which he was “mean-spirited”. As was Kelly. I do not see you saying a word about that, and of course you once again fail to address that BG is a blatant liar. She is selling the FEW politicians that they have a lie. A lie which makes it seem that Islam can coexist here along with life as we know it. They cannot, and in the end it will be Sharia or life as we know it. Maybe it would be best if no one said a word about her FAILED policy of “moderate” Muslims coming to the rescue, and just let things continue to spiral out of control…

      If you are afraid of being labeled an Islamophobe you are certainly in the wrong political forum.

    • admin

      If you really thought I was doing them a favor you would not be here trying to get me to stop. Please don’t try and spin things with me Carl.

      Take care.

    • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

      The wise gentlemen who founded this best nation on earth declared certain ideas and ideals including the dignity, equality and sovereignty of the individual, his right to own himself and the product of his labor while engaged in life and the pursuit of happiness. They declared the Almighty Creator, not government to be the source of human rights. They declared government to be the guarantor of those rights. They declared that men have a right to decide what, if any religion they might believe and practice.

      Islam declares all men to be either slaves of or rebels against Allah. It declares Islam to be the right, true and only acceptable religion. It declares that only Allah has the right to be worshiped and the right to legislate.

      Islam declares that all atheists and pagans who will not submit to it must be killed. It declares that all Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians who will not submit to it must be subjugated and extorted.

      Islam makes not being Muslim a status offense carrying a death penalty. it declares perpetual, unremitting warfare against all Non-Muslims. It denies the sanctity of our blood and property, declaring that we do not obtain dignity or human rights until we become Muslims.

      Islam makes all believers Allah’s slaves who fight in his cause, killing others and being killed. It promises them great rewards for participating in jihad and threatens them with eternal damnation if they refuse to fight when called. It promises an upgrade in Allah’s celestial bordello for any act of terrorism.

      If I can establish the above listed fatal facts of Islam by citation to Islam’s canon of scripture, tradition & jurisprudence, then how can there be any element of truth in such expressions as “radical”, “moderate”, “extreme”, “Islamofascist”, “Islamist”, “hijacked”, “twisting” & “perverting” as applied to Islam?

      Does Islam have a standard or not? Are its doctrines enshrined in the Qur’an or not? Are they confirmed by Moe’s Sunnah or not? Are they codified in Shari’ah or not?

      How does anyone hope to segue from “extremist”, “radical”, Islamofascism & “hijacked” to the fatal facts above listed with a straight face, without abandoning all credibility? The two systems of describing Islam are polar opposites and entirely incompatible. One is true and the other is malignant malarkey.

      We both know that Dr. Jasser is either practicing al-Taqiyya & Kitman or suffering from the world’s worst case of cognitive dissonance. His concept of Islam as an anodyne, apolitical personal religion can not be defended against Surat Al-Anfal, At-Taubah,Al-Ahzab, and Muhammad.

    • Nick the Desert Demon

      Why are you guys wasting all this ENERGY, TIME, and AMMO on each other? There’s at least another 100 million people out there who need to be reached about the threat of Islam! Better that we have BOTH of you working on that.

      • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

        Ammo spent in this conflict is not wasted. These blog posts and comments are indexed by web spiders and can appear in the SERPS when curious people Google persons, concepts and texts mentioned therein.

  • montdor44

    Leading people by small steps is not the same as misleading them — this is what teachers are trained to do, surely with slow students, and especially with students who come in with a headful of blather that needs to be identified and corrected. It’s an uphill job to counter peoples’ dearly-held beliefs, fill them with facts that will cause them to lose their friends when they speak out. They need to be strengthened by degrees. There is room for more than one method in the struggle to get the truth out. Da’wah jockeys know this — that’s why they’re effective. Well, their small steps hypnotize and train the innocents to submit and so shut out the truth. ACT leads them to learn & question and distinguish truth from falsehood. That’s a fundamental difference.

    • admin

      Her continually promoting Jasser is misleading non-Muslims into believing Islam will reform. I have seen it over and over again online. Stating that Jasser “truly represents” Muslims here is a flat out lie, and Pipes has been pushing the “moderate” nonsense since at least 2004. It is not working. Her message makes it seem that Islam is compatible here. It is not.

      I have heard plenty of stories of ACT! members questioning Gabriel on this fantasy. They are concerned the public is not getting the truth. They are right to be concerned. Beating around the bush did not work in Europe, and it will not work here.

    • admin

      At least eight years of Pipes….those a some VERY small steps. In the meantime Sharia is jogging across the West.

      • montdor44

        Pipes & Gabriel, et al., have been contained/dismissed by the apologist leftist fearful & ignorant Western machine. Those who come on like you do — closer to the truth, at least — even moreso. If you envision a future in which (global, supremist) Islam is eliminated from the face of the earth, then your fantasy beats theirs. Essential at this time is gaining support for the legitimacy & urgency of opposing it. That involves opening minds to want to take in knowledge that opposes a lifetime of propaganda pollution, and all the social & psychological consequences that follow, not adopting an opposing fixed viewpoint and closing the mind again. It is a major achievement to get such folks to read Pipes and Gabriel and Jasser and Spencer at all. After some time with them, they might be able to make the jump to you. This outrageous global problem brings out lots of strong characters, of which you are just one. Maybe best to stop beating up on them so much. They’re all good teachers in their own way. That doesn’t mean they’re perfect. The collection gives thinking people things to think about — things to reject. That’s a good thing, yes?

        • admin

          How would things be if NO ONE said the “moderate” idea is not working? How would we get to the next phase? I have stated they have done some good work, but they have gone way too way far with the Jasser nonsense. Jasser will not even condemn Mohammad for raping sex slaves. This is a man that Gabriel should promote? Things to think about, and thanks for the other kind words. :)

          • Carl Goldberg

            It is very important for you and others to tell the truth about “moderate Moslems” including Jasser. Most of us can agree that there is no such thing as “moderate Islam”, where Islam is taken to mean the belief system as opposed to the practice of particular Moslems. But that truth can be more effectively spread in a less abrasive and more civilized manner than you have been doing.

          • admin

            You keep avoiding how ACT! responded. Like I said, I am not going to bow down to those two want to be goons.

    • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

      There is no “moderate Islam”. There is no “radical Islam”. There are neither “moderate” nor “extreme” Muslims. To postulate the existence of those fictional entities destroys the credibility of the liar and casts doubt on all the facts, logic and conclusions published by those of us who are truthful.

      Quote the Qur’an, hadith, tafsir & Shari’ah. Display screen shots. Post links. Make the facts available to the public so that they can research them at leisure and confirm the obvious for themselves.

      Example: Hedaya Vol II, Book IX, Ch. 1 Pg. 141 PDF 154
      http://www.archive.org/stream/hedaysorguide00hamigoog#page/n154/mode/1up

      * Text
      o The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the sacred writings which are generally received this effect.
      * Marginal Note
      o Infidels may be attacked without provocation.

      In the time of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) jihad was a communal obligation after his emigration (hijra) to Medina. As for subsequent times, there are two possible states in respect to non-Muslims.

      The first is when they are in their own countries, in which case jihad (def: o9.8) is a communal obligation, and this is what our author is speaking of when he says, “Jihad is a communal obligation,” meaning upon the Muslims each year.
      http://www.shariahthethreat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/reliance_of_the_traveller.pdf#page=618

      I just made Shari’ah easily accessible to all readers of this blog post. Now they can learn the truth about jihad: that it is aggressive, offensive and undertaken on Islamic initiative. I have presented a relevant, verifiable fact with probative evidence which is impossible to refute.

      Fantasies about “Moderate Muslims” to the rescue can not trump the truth.

  • emmi

    Twinkle, I haven’t time to answer all your points or even to read others’ responses, at the moment. One point I feel Imust make us your reference to the fact that Muslims would have to hide their plans from the CIA, MI6 etc.
    1. Successive governments in the UK have made an agreement with Muslims to leave them alone as long as they do not harm us.
    2. The FBI uncovered the Muslim Brotherhood’s Strategy Plan for taking over the West. Those in the White House know about this and do nothing. I can’t recall exact words, but the Plan advises, keep quiet, be friendly to infidels, make demands (some later advised make and invent unreasonable demands) get jobs on councils and in politucal parties, state openly Muslim intentions for takeover of the West, when infrastructure is in place, take over. In the UK it is added ‘by force if necessary’.
    Throughout the world this is the way Islamists are taking over. The brutality is shocking. Muslims need to solve their poverty problems by using contraception, not by attacking harmless people and ‘plundering the lands of the infidels’ as Muslims are advised to do by their ‘holy’ imams.
    Watch Mali to see Islam in action. The people innocently getting along together, had own radio station,music, different beliefs, everyone poor. A few weeks ago, fanatical Muslims swooped to enforce sharia law (damn cheek), chopped off man’s hand, people cried out against this to no avail. Next step destroy other people’s culture, so the Muslims set about breaking up a large ancient religious site. You should see the pile of rubble that is there now. Put paid to tourism. People more miserable, frightened and poor. A typical Muslim stamp on the place. Who cares as long as they are chanting the Koran and raising their behinds to the sky five times a day instead of working to improve their lives?
    Rich Muslims, Saudis in particular, should do the decent thing and help their impoverished and starving brothers and sisters, give them birth control. Stop sending large sums of money for building mosques in the West. In other words, if your religion is so good put your money where your mouth is and stop leaving it to infidel Westerners to feed and medically treat your poor co-religionists.

    • Twinkle

      Its alright, time is a constraint everyone has to abide by in this world.

      I can only say this much: my views were against pronouncing ‘Islam’ as a whole as evil. I did explain that Muslims’ actions do not reflect the religion wholly, and that includes the governments. The document which the FBI covered is interesting, I will try to find it on the net if I can.

      It is terrible the way illiterate Muslims are acting, listening to the words of greedy leaders. (most of them very wrong in their preachings about Islam- your reference to ‘pious Imams’) I won’t say that it isn’t wrong, it is the epitome of cruelty to kill people because they were having a social gathering.

      Rich Muslims do not do anything- I can agree with this. They don’t. And if you read the history of Islam, rich Muslims became poor by giving everything to charity and helping other Muslims. Thus, on this point, do not call Islam immoral.

  • Twinkle

    Dear Mr. Logan, (and others)
    During my (extremely short) research I have reached the conclusion that it would be disrespectful, and folly to argue on things I don’t have the full knowledge off.

    I am not leaving permanently, please understand. Your questions are my questions, and to find the answer, I will have to study as much as you did. (Not ten years though; hopefully)
    I wanted to understand why people are carrying the notion of killing off Islam. I understood your main concerns, they are solid and proper- and so I won’t try to convince you through immature reasoning.

    I will be back, in a few months or year(s); doesn’t matter. The answers will be found, and presuming you won’t be dead in that time, we will discuss this issue again. Just as a heads up though: I won’t cut myself off entirely, you can expect a few comments on your future posts from Twinkle.

    I wonder what the response to this would be,
    Twinkle

    • admin

      Why are you in SA? Were you born there?

      • Twinkle

        No, I was not born here.
        I am an expatriate (as the government does not let anyone become a citizen, except if there ‘father’ is a Saudi), over the years I have concluded that revealing your location, or even your background/age, is enough to lose an intellectual argument.
        Because stereotypes are unavoidable, and people judge by cover.

        I am surprised you actually replied when you found out where I live.

        • admin

          You lost argument regardless of your location.

          Take care.

          • Twinkle

            That I did,
            Take care as well.

        • zaba

          Twinkie:
          Excellent takiya; reminds me of a line from a favorite movie, Princess Bride:
          “LIAR!!!”

          • Twinkle

            Er, I searched on Takiya and it either means to lie to protect oneself, or there is some other terrorist definition I can’t seem to find.

            Either way- I am lying? Pssh, I never said anything directly except the things above (which are true). I am not protecting myself, as you can see I conceded a loss and showed I harbor no animosity. Unless you doubt that, which is alright since you can’t judge a person’s heart online.

          • admin

            Hi Zaba!

        • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

          Twinkle, when you reside in Dar ul-Islam, revealing any scintilla of doubt about any of Islam’s sanctities subjects you to the death penalty.

          Under that circumstance, revealing identifying information is extremely unwise.

          • Twinkle

            You are correct, and unless Mr. Logan publishes my email, I cannot be traced.

            For a non-Muslim openly speaking against Islam in this country is of course, a serious crime. For a Muslim, leaving the religion is a death penalty, you may ask your elders (or Imams) about certain doubts.

            If you notice, my answers don’t say anything against Islam directly, I didn’t full out agree yet, only said I would study before talking about it again.

            On this amount of evidence, a fair court won’t give me a death sentence.

    • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

      Twinkle, if you are literate in Arabic, obtain a copy of Hishham’s Rescension ofSirat Rasul Allah, which can be found in large Islamic libraries on the web. Read it carefully. If not, get Guillaume’s life of Muhammad from Amazon. Read it and ponder it well.

      Read Tafsir Ibn Kathir and follow it up with Sahih Bukhari.

      Once you fully understand the Profiteer, you are half way there. You may need to read The Sealed Nectar, too. Then search for and read Moe’s extortion letters which,are extremely informative; the letter to the Chiefs of Aqaba being chief among them for explicit clarity.

      If you are literate in Arabic, Ibn Sa’d’s hadith collection, which includes an extensive Sira, is a good substitute. There is an English translation on a Dutch Muslim’s site, but I doubt that it is complete.

      • Twinkle

        Unfortunately I am not literate in Arabic (was my worst subject in school), I have resolved to try learning it, when I make time.

        Though it won’t make up for the original- there are English translations of the Quran, in the light of several original Tafsirs. (From Ibn Kathir, Qurtub and the other scholars after the Prophet) I will be using them as a source for now.

        I have a copy of the Prophet’s life somewhere, (in the Light of the Quran and Sunnah according to the cover) never got a chance to read it, but I will be sure to compare what you recommended with it. (In the process I will be evaluating the authenticity of both)

        Thanks again,
        Twinkle

        • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

          Hilali & Khan did less Bowdlerization than some translators. For the most part they are more accurate than the mill run, the errors being: “marry” means Nikkah, which boils down to the infamous “F” word and “fight” means fight/kill, in the sense of wage war. 8:57 & 60 should be supplemented by Pickthall, Shakir & Yusuf Ali who have more clarity in those verses. Yusuf Ali’s commentary is useful, but must be taken with a grain of salt and compared to authentic ahadith as a reality check.

          When in doubt on authenticity & accuracy, try Corpus Qur’an, but be aware: in the case of deceiver, they bowdlerize it to plotter(Al-Makar).

  • emmi

    Twinkle, in one of your posts you state that Muslims have given to the community. In the UK they have given one large headache. More babies than our health service can cope with, openly stating now in accordance with Muslim Brotherhood Plan that they will outbreed the Brits, lazy imams giving up jobs to concentrate on Islamicising UK while living on benefits, raping British women as a right under Islamic law, cruelly produced halal meat, placards threatening beheading and another 9/11 for infidels, neat little shops made rundown and shabby, sputum on pavements once forbidden in this country, excessive littering, screaming for banning of dogs, circumcision of all British women, beating to a permanent state of incapacity any infidel teacher who mentions Islam in religious studies with girls present, death threats to British women not wearing headscarves, disobeying hospital rules of two visitors at a time and attending bedsides in gangs of males, even in maternity wards where they ogle women who are breastfeeding. That is a small slice of what Muslims give to the UK.
    I would also suggest you read Jean Sasson’s books starting with ‘Princess’ told by a member of the Saudi royal family who must remain anonymous. The princess despairs of her narrow life although she is a wealthy royal.

    • Twinkle

      That sounds extremely serious, the British Government allowed all this to continue? Islam, is a religion of ‘good manners’ I am sure this phrase has been heard by many (and held in contempt by many too). All that you mentioned, is NOT ALLOWED given the circumstances, as England is not an Islamic State, they cannot demand such things. (As far as crimes go, rape is something condemned in Islam, the punishment is in lashes)

      Royalty is one class I have always felt sorry for, and though this may be putting myself at risk- Saudi women too, are people I have felt infinitely sorry for; always. (As a disclaimer let me state it is the un-Islamic restrictions which make me feel sorry for them)
      My list of books is increasing, I wonder when I will be able to write my report on each.

      Intelligent, educated Muslims have given to the economy. I myself personally know one British Muslim who is a very respectable doctor in England. (And his sense of propriety is top-notch) When I say the economy will suffer, I refer to these people who don’t do such acts and only live on their hard work. They are ‘high net worth individuals’ (HNWIs) who do make the economy more efficient and productive.

      • http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ Dajjal

        Islam is dualistic, it divides the world into two primary groups: Muslims and Kuffar. Islamic modesty, manners, charity and good will apply to the former, not to the latter. The lives of kuffar have no dignity, sanctity or rights until they become Muslims.

        For the manners part, see Muslim, Book 26

        http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/hadeeth/muslim/025.html#025.5374

        For the sanctity of life part, see Bukhari 1.8.387.

      • emmi

        Twinkle, there is a British Muslim surgeon in a camp in Syria intending to assist jihad with the rebels for two years and then return to the UK to take up a higher position in the National Health Service. Perhaps he is a member of one of the many quiet cells in the UK ready to carry out jihad here when the time comes and Muslims make the big push to turn the UK into an Islamic state.
        Muslims are getting ever more backward. In Yemen crucifixion has become the latest fashion. No Muslim speaks out against this.

  • Stephen Gash

    Every self-proclaimed “moderate” Muslim must be asked which parts of Islam they consider to be immoderate? Then they must be asked what they intend to do about Islam’s immoderacy? Then they must be asked when are they going to do something about Islam’s immoderacy? Then they must be asked why has it taken over a millenium for “moderate” Muslims to even think about doing someting about Islam’s immoderacy? Then they must be asked why they had to be asked in the first place?

  • Stephen Gash

    I don’t understand Brigitte Gabriel’s change in stance. A few years ago she made an excellent speech about her plight and that of other Christians in the Lebanon and asked where the so-called “moderate” Muslims were. She gave every impression then, that she considered “moderate” Muslims to be at best ineffective, in the Lebanon at least.

  • emmi

    Carl, who are you to say how people should present their truth about the threat of Islam? You cannot supply any figures to say what is a successful way of campaigning. There will be some who might object to the Logan bluntness and will not heed his warnings or join his campaign. But there may be many more who prefer outspokenness and I am one of them. In my experience Muslims back down when confronted with unexpected sharpness.
    Your posts are very much like the left wing answers we get in the UK or the kind that priests and vicars use, so that we all play together nicely and be good multiculturalists. This milquetoast attitude is seen as weakness by Muslims; it emboldens them and they take even more liberties.

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  • erna

    TWINKLE,I HAVE NOT READ ALL YOUR BLOGS AND I WILL READ THEM ALL. I DO APPRECIATE YOUR POLITENESS UP TO THIS POINT OF READING AND YOUR QUEST TO SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH WITH THE HELP OF DAJJAL. ONE VERY IMPORTANT VIDEO IS A MUST SEE AND IT IS CALLED WHY WE ARE AFRAID A 1400 YEAR SECRET BY DR.BILL WARNER. POLITICAL ISLAM.COM DR. BILL WARNER.

  • Mary Anne Koontz

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MODERATE MUSLIM
    WAKE UP PEOPLE